what is this???

[Ben]

Hi George,

With a VIN of 101,000+ and the picture of your car as your avatar, there is no way that your car is a '72.

If your car has no hatch vents, no hand throttle, proper reclining mechanisms on the seats & bumper-mounted indicators, it's a '73.

[24OZ]

Hi Ben G'day mate

You are right .... I have no hand throttle, no vents at the rear either but I dont have proper reclining seat belts but I do have the indicators on the bumpers.

Oh well its a 73, I guess ..... I am not too sure if late 72's had vents at the rear? did they?

[Zedrally]

Originally posted by 24OZ

Oh well its a 73, I guess ..... I am not too sure if late 72's had vents at the rear? did they?

Just wishful thinking, George.

Unfortunately, from your description it's a '73.

MN

[2ManyZs]

I don't like to disagree, but you can't go by the VIN numbers to guess production output. You have to realize that prior to 71 production output was less than 20,000 HLS cars, yet for the 72 model they produced somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000 in one year. I don't know the production numbers for HS-30's, et al, but I'm sure Alan might have some ideas?

My 71 has a production date of 11/70 as does a friend of mine. His cars VIN is 1028 less than mine while being produced in the same month... So as you can see, they were already increasing production as early as late 1970. So you can see a guess of 2 months =700 cars is going to be on the short side....

Then there is the fact that the HLS cars were mixed in with the HS-30 models and others, which would give you an even higher per month production run....Hard to say how many could have come out of the factory on a daily basis, at least not without seeing invoices of some kind from the factory.

[HS30-H]

I think Steve's estimate of roughly 700 cars over a two month period could well be quite a good ballpark figure - BUT, only for ( RHD ) HS30 prefixed VINS, which would include Japanese-market models that became available from late '71. After that period, production of HS30 models started to really ramp up.

As far as its possible to tell, HS30 models never got into the sausage-factory mode of production that the HLS30 models did. The markets for the HS30 models were a lot greener than the USA market, and suffered from a fairly slow retail take-up in comparison to the LHD models ( a fairly complicated combination of factors was at work - including high retail cost due to Import taxation, a bad economic outlook, and possibly some brand prejudice too ). The Factory had its work cut out producing enough cars for the USA / North American market too, so the right-hookers tended to get put through the lines in a rather hap-hazard fashion linked to demand and convenience. I think we can imagine what it must have been like.

I'm becoming more and more wary of quoting ANY production figures for these cars, and I think the figures for the RHD models are particularly dodgy. Lots of people seem to think they have some kind of handle on them, but I reckon they are quoting figures that have been guesstimated or plain made up. Nissan themselves have always been some of the worst culprits for mis-information in this department. I think I have about six different sets of year-on-year and model-by-model prod. figures from different Nissan-published or Nissan-provided sources, and I think ALL of them are inaccurate.

To be honest, its probably only the USA / North American market cars that can have fairly reliable production figures / dates quoted for them. The cars that arrived in the USA / North American market were fairly well documented from the beginning, and had a proper branch of Nissan controlling the Import operation. Contrast this with other markets, where franchises and licensed importers were the norm, and its not surprising that the situation for the RHD cars is quite different. Add to this the oft-muted but hard to pin down rumours in Japanese enthusiast circles that RHD production figures were fudged and tweaked slightly, and you start to get more inkling that all is not as it might seem to be.

Local and national clubs sometimes seem to have a fairly good handle on what, when and how many cars were sold into their market from new - but these are not always gospel either.

I'm always puzzled by the American auto industry tradition of giving cars 'model' years. I think this confuses the issue when talking about Z cars in particular. I used to own a few American cars, so I'm familiar with the system and its logic. But as far as I am concerned, the only thing that matters when dating a car is the month and year it was made. If I could get the day and the time as well I'd be even happier! Anything else is just a local perception that came about because salesmen want to sell cars, and making them sound more modern or younger is to their advantage.

That quote from Keith above is a good example: "My 71 has a production date of 11/70". I understand how this way of thinking came about, and that it isn't going to stop - but I DO think it can lead to some confusion when dating and pinning down the spec. on certain cars. Reading that kind of statement from outside the USA, it can appear quite illogical. I don't trust the production dates stamped onto the car's tags either ( I know that figures were tweaked slightly at the Factory to make some cars appear younger than they really were ) and in fact the Japanese-market and the UK-market cars had no official manufacturing date marked on them at all.

Many of the Japanese Z specialists and enthusiasts that I have contact with are much more phlegmatic about the actual production dates of their cars. They don't like to try to attempt to be too accurate about the actual month of production, but tend to allow a combination of certain dating features and the VIN number speak for themselves. If this still leaves the actual month of production unclear, then so be it. I know it might sound rather un-Japanese - but they seem to accept that pinning down the absolute truth about RHD production dates and quantities is a fairly hopeless task.

Quotes of RHD production figures can be wildly inaccurate. Try www.cybersanford.net for an amusing stab at these ( hello Bob - if you're tuning in, and no offence intended - as I'm sure that you got them from somewhere in good faith, and got that "An American car - made in Japan" quote thrown in for free ). I own a Japanese-market Fairlady S30 ( VIN number "S30-03761" ) which was sold in Tokyo in mid-1970 ( I have the original bill of sale ). According to the figures quoted on the cybersanford homepage, my car is very rare indeed!

All in all, I just don't think its possible to be as accurate with the RHD figures as it is with the LHD figures. At some point we have to accept that fact and just do the best job we can based on the evidence that can be put together. I thought I was starting to get a handle on all this over the last few years, but its been dawning on me recently that if the Japanese enthusiasts and specialists think I'm on a hiding to nothing, then there must be something in what they say................

All part of the attraction and mystery of these cars, I think.

I'm sitting here writing this as a kind of personal antidote to the wall-to-wall war coverage. My hobby is a refuge that I do not want the troubles of the world to invade.

Peace and love everyone,

Alan T.

[turbo240]

hehe...alan has become a hippy. thats neat.

[Zedrally]

Originally posted by HS30-H

I have about six different sets of year-on-year and model-by-model prod. figures from different Nissan-published or Nissan-provided sources, and I think ALL of them are inaccurate.

That quote from Keith above is a good example: "My 71 has a production date of 11/70". I understand how this way of thinking came about, and that it isn't going to stop - but I DO think it can lead to some confusion when dating and pinning down the spec. on certain cars.

Alan T.

Huh..so as I suspected my 73 is really a 70 and my 77 is a 73, good news is that the 2/2 which was a 76 made in 73 was really built in 69!

Yes, Alan I've come to the same conclusion that these numbers are all "rubbery", it's a pity, but the sooner we accept it then life can go on.

[sjcurtis]

I think we are all enjoying the chase. I think over the next few years as what remains of the classic Zed fleet around the world becomes more visible to the online community, we will get a much better picture to set the records straight. hopefully we can work threough all te build annomolies as well.

Cheers

Steve:classic: