Hagerty Auction Results Interesting But Maybe Troubling

[Steve49841]

All value is perceived.  Auctions are market makers and auction companies are market pimps.  The absolute worst thing that can happen for most people is to have the car you enjoy be "discovered". 

[DatsunZGuy]

All value is perceived. Auctions are market makers and auction companies are market pimps. The absolute worst thing that can happen for most people is to have the car you enjoy be "discovered".

Amen.

I for one would like to see our Z's remain an affordable classic and value not dictated by speculation and whim of the non-purists, whose only interest is a good ROE.

How many stock 67-68 Mustang fastbacks were customized during the Eleanor craze?

[Hardway]

I will weigh in with just a few thoughts.  Despite the article and other comments I think the 240z is gaining more and more fans, from all sides of the hobby.  In fact, just yesterday at Starbucks a gentleman had his 1951 MG parked outside.  I spotted him with a british hat on and we started talking shop.  Once I mentioned I had a 240z he lit up even more as we swapped stories about them.  These are drivers cars that everyone can relate to and at some point in almost everyone's life a Z has been there in one way or another. 

 

As far as the money and value question, there will always be flippers buying and selling cars, art, homes, antiques, on and on and on.  If it is has value or preceived value, someone is flipping it, they always have been.  In the grand scheme of things, I would just watch but not worry as there is nothing we can do about it.  If our cars go up in value, cool, if not, that's fine too.  Another car to look at is all stock Honda CRX Si hatchbacks.  Go find a nice one for a reasonable price, you will find they are not as reasonable as one would think.  Same goes for a nice stock 87-92 Z28 or Trans Am.  Buyers and sellers in the collector car market value stock and originality and will pay a premium for it.  

 

Will our cars ever get priced out of what could be considered an affordable market?  Probably not.  Sure there will be super well done $30K+ cars but with so many Z's out there in varying degrees of condition and modification, there will always be something out there for everyone that wants one, as long as they are willing to be patient. 

[xs10shl]

If you look across the broader spectrum of 60s to early 70s sports car selling prices over the last few years you'll see the same price increase almost across the board for well known global-market cars. E-types went from $125k to north of $300k, and 71-73 porsche 911s have tripled in price. A BMW 3.0 CSI was a 15 to 20k car forever, and all of a sudden it now costs over $50k for one you'd want to own. An early countach was $400k a few years ago, now they are $1.8 million. In this context it's not too surprising that late 60's and early 70s Japanese cars are following the trend. As the interest bell-curve edges towards cars of the mid 70s and newer, we will likely see more of that. At the same time, we'll see a decline in interest for the more common pre-war cars, and those prices will not keep up with inflation.

Some selling prices appear skewed when it comes to fully restored cars - it can take $100k of more to restore most cars to concours levels, and more buyers are willing to pay a premium for true #1 cars, which skews the market for cars typically valued at far less than that. I think it would be a real litmus test to see a concours-restored, certified Z nationals winner cross the block. I would not be surprised any longer to see an eye-popping result. (Note, this is not to say that all the Japanese cars that sold in August were concours examples. I saw them all in person, and IMHO not all were concours).

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Just want to say great conversation guys! Well done

[bartsscooterservice]

While I can agree with some of the points in the Hemmings article, some don't ring true. Certainly, the Japanese cars aren't perceived as having the "soul" of a vintage British sports car. The long tradition of MG, Triumph, and Jaguar, to name a few, is something the Japanese cars have yet to achieve. As for an anti Japanese car attitude by The WWII generation, it certainly doesn't seem to apply to German cars. Go figure. Perhaps there's more to the equation.

There are so many variables that go into figuring out what makes some cars worth a fortune and some not. Even rarity isn't always a factor. I own two cars, each of which is one of less than 2,000 produced. One is a 1970 German sports car and the other is American made, fiberglass bodied, built in 1963,and factory supercharged. Neither is especially valuable, at least in the "retirement fund" sense.

If only we knew which way the market was going to eventually swing and had the cash to buy in early. In the meanwhile, I just have fun knowing what's in my garage and enjoying them for what they are. Often, the only people who make big money on the cars we enjoy are the ones who fix them or sell the parts to keep them running.

Dennis

 

One of my friends just brought a Bricklin SV1 from the US..  A car built in low numbers, but it's not worth much...

[psdenno]

One of my friends just brought a Bricklin SV1 from the US.. A car built in low numbers, but it's not worth much...

It's comforting to know that all cars don't become "collector" cars with collector car prices. When they become expensive museum pieces, they're fun to look at. But, for most of us, the fun is in the driving, fixing, and problem solving involved in owning a car built in the last century. Cars like the Briklin and Delorean are quirky enough to keep most owners happy for a lifetime, even if the value doesn't keep up with inflation.

Dennis