240Z E31 Head Gasket Options

[redzedsled]

What i am saying is that the oval shaped fire rings are big enough for the larger exhaust or intake valves to be intsalled. Most HG's have the oval shape already. It seemed the OP was concerned with getting a perfectly round fire ring on the  HG . Well that might not work for anything other than stock. The only way to be sure is to lay the HG on the head to make sure it doesn't impede into the combustion chamber.

If you have your "how to modify" book, look in there. The oval fire ring allows for some nice unshrouding which is strongly recommended on the L24. Cliff-you shouldn't use a 280 Hg

 

Most all of the head gaskets I have seen do not have the oval firing ring. I do have a copy of the book you mention, but at this stage of the game everything is ready to be bolted up.

 

Having said that I am running a very stock E31 head with the standard sized valves with 30 over flat top pistons.

 

I did lay the head gasket down, and I commented to the engine builder that is was very close to the pistons and his response was "you want it as close as possible without interference".

 

This engine builder had concerns about blocking off water passages though yet Dan at the Z shop (a Nissan technician), who works with Z cars as his profession, thinks the new style of head gasket with the oval firing ring is the way to go, despite the water passages being restricted with this gasket.

 

In fact he had other 240Z head gaskets on the shelf, and all had the same water passage holes as I mentioned, along with the oval firing ring.

 

I managed to find images of a Genuine Nissan head gasket for a 280ZX, part number 11044-P7911, and there is an absence of water passage holes entirely. See pics below for reference.

 

 

[Zed Head]

Here's some interesting stuff.  Follow the supercession path and you end up at - 11044-E3102 (I think).  I'm guessing the P3... numbers are E88, maybe. Courtesy Nissan shows potential - 

 

http://www.courtesyparts.com/gasket-cyl-p-239863.html

 

Of course, there's an assumption that only the gasket changed, not the head.  And with Nissan, you might still get a different part when you order it.  

 

By the way, the Stone gasket seems to be one of the cheaper gaskets out on the internet.  If you trust RockAuto and Beck Arnley, there's a $62 HG on the Rockauto site, with the Beck Arnley history behind it.  They seem to know what they're doing.

 

 

Also, on "graphite" material.  I think that's meaningless.  True graphite would be useless as a gasket material.  I think people call anything that looks like it's fibrous, and is black, "graphite".

 

I posted a link to Oliver's ZSpecialties site.  Personally, I would go with the opinion of somebody who's rebuilt a lot of engines, if you can get it from them.  They're the ones who get complained to when the HG fails.  Maybe Eiji would be worth a call, or Rebello.  

[redzedsled]

Here's some interesting stuff.  Follow the supercession path and you end up at - 11044-E3102 (I think).  I'm guessing the P3... numbers are E88, maybe. Courtesy Nissan shows potential - 

 

http://www.courtesyparts.com/gasket-cyl-p-239863.html

 

Of course, there's an assumption that only the gasket changed, not the head.  And with Nissan, you might still get a different part when you order it.  

 

By the way, the Stone gasket seems to be one of the cheaper gaskets out on the internet.  If you trust RockAuto and Beck Arnley, there's a $62 HG on the Rockauto site, with the Beck Arnley history behind it.  They seem to know what they're doing.

 

 

Also, on "graphite" material.  I think that's meaningless.  True graphite would be useless as a gasket material.  I think people call anything that looks like it's fibrous, and is black, "graphite".

 

I posted a link to Oliver's ZSpecialties site.  Personally, I would go with the opinion of somebody who's rebuilt a lot of engines, if you can get it from them.  They're the ones who get complained to when the HG fails.  Maybe Eiji would be worth a call, or Rebello.  

 

All very valid comments. The supercession chain suggests that all roads lead to the 11044-27L01, which is NLA. This is the gasket that I have in hand I'm sure.

 

I have a copy of the Nissan Fast Supercession software but it is not current. All these part numbers are now obsolete within this chain according to my Nissan Dealer.

 

With respect to the quality of "Stone", I would not disagree with you about their general quality, but this gasket I have really is world's apart when I compared them to the ones that were on the shelf at Dan's Z Shop. The other gaskets I have seen are very soft and require retorquing. The Felpro Perma-Torque  brand does not require retorqing so I have learned.

 

I showed the engine builder an aftermarket gasket, not sure of brand, and he thought the 11044-27L01 gasket was far superior. I still remain torn...

 

I have trusted Beck Arnley and find their parts to be as close to OEM as possible. I just can't get my hands on one soon enough.

 

I think my engine builder is losing patience with me, as he is chomping at the bit to get it bolted together. Time just does not permit.

[Zed Head]

What do you mean by "quality"?  Just curious.  I would rather use an ugly gasket on that does the job best, than a shiny smooth one that has problems.  Just saying, once it's buried under the head they all look the same.

 

Head gasket discussions are always interesting.

 

Who is your engine builder?  Is he experienced with these engines or just engines in general?

 

 

 

 

p.s. It's champing, not chomping. 

[redzedsled]

What do you mean by "quality"?  Just curious.  I would rather use an ugly gasket on that does the job best, than a shiny smooth one that has problems.  Just saying, once it's buried under the head they all look the same.

 

Head gasket discussions are always interesting.

 

Who is your engine builder?  Is he experienced with these engines or just engines in general?

 

 

 

 

p.s. It's champing, not chomping. 

 

My engine builder is Heads Unlimited. They have been in business for over 40 years and the owner is doing the assembly has done many of these engines.

 

Alf is the owner is doing the assembly work. Their website is http://www.headsunlimited.com/

 

BTW thanks for the English lesson

[siteunseen]

I called my Nissan parts guy and asked about your numbers, your right "none out there".  He suggested Felpro 21157.

[redzedsled]

I found this one on ebay, it is Genuine Nissan part number 11044-N4221. I imagine the firing ring would be 89mm round.

 

[redzedsled]

What i am saying is that the oval shaped fire rings are big enough for the larger exhaust or intake valves to be intsalled. Most HG's have the oval shape already. It seemed the OP was concerned with getting a perfectly round fire ring on the  HG . Well that might not work for anything other than stock. The only way to be sure is to lay the HG on the head to make sure it doesn't impede into the combustion chamber.

If you have your "how to modify" book, look in there. The oval fire ring allows for some nice unshrouding which is strongly recommended on the L24. Cliff-you shouldn't use a 280 Hg

 

Steve,

 

After reading carefully between the lines I see the importance of your comment on the oval firing ring having more clearance if you are to use the oversize valves.

 

Point very well made...

[Zed Head]

My engine builder is Heads Unlimited. They have been in business for over 40 years and the owner is doing the assembly has done many of these engines.

I usually ask a bunch of questions to learn from, then go with the opinion of the expert.  In your case, if you choose and things go wrong, the builder can say "told you so".  If you go with his choice and things go wrong, he ll be more likely to make it right.

 

Good luck.

[redzedsled]

That is the beauty of this forum, many opinions and many options.

 

Has anyone used the FelPro Perma-Torque head gaskets, I can get my hands on one of those very easy.

 

The engine builder noted these were very soft gaskets years ago, but maybe these new type of FelPro gaskets have changed.

 

Having not put one in my hands, I am assuming they have a steel core.

[redzedsled]

I usually ask a bunch of questions to learn from, then go with the opinion of the expert.  In your case, if you choose and things go wrong, the builder can say "told you so".  If you go with his choice and things go wrong, he ll be more likely to make it right.

 

Good luck.

 

Point well stated!

[redzedsled]

Here's some interesting stuff.  Follow the supercession path and you end up at - 11044-E3102 (I think).  I'm guessing the P3... numbers are E88, maybe. Courtesy Nissan shows potential - 

 

http://www.courtesyparts.com/gasket-cyl-p-239863.html

 

Of course, there's an assumption that only the gasket changed, not the head.  And with Nissan, you might still get a different part when you order it.  

 

By the way, the Stone gasket seems to be one of the cheaper gaskets out on the internet.  If you trust RockAuto and Beck Arnley, there's a $62 HG on the Rockauto site, with the Beck Arnley history behind it.  They seem to know what they're doing.

 

 

Also, on "graphite" material.  I think that's meaningless.  True graphite would be useless as a gasket material.  I think people call anything that looks like it's fibrous, and is black, "graphite".

 

I posted a link to Oliver's ZSpecialties site.  Personally, I would go with the opinion of somebody who's rebuilt a lot of engines, if you can get it from them.  They're the ones who get complained to when the HG fails.  Maybe Eiji would be worth a call, or Rebello.  

 

Thanks for the advice on calling Robello, they told me that he uses the Genuine Nissan part number 11044-N4221 in all his race engines.

 

The larger firing ring, he stated, will not make a signficant difference. This is the only known gasket that Nissan makes that has all the water passages required.