1976 280Z Restoration Project

[wheee!]

That is the plan. There is definitely some filler on the hood and I have removed the top layer of paint to find epoxy primer already there. But it is over top of the original paint and some older filler too. I need to remove ALL the old paint and filler and start fresh like I did on the rest of the car. Some people insist on filler before primer, but with the new epoxy primers, they provide a really good bite for the filler to bond to and do a great job of sealing the bare metal to prevent rust.

[DC871F]

41 minutes ago, wheee! said:

That is the plan. There is definitely some filler on the hood and I have removed the top layer of paint to find epoxy primer already there. But it is over top of the original paint and some older filler too. I need to remove ALL the old paint and filler and start fresh like I did on the rest of the car. Some people insist on filler before primer, but with the new epoxy primers, they provide a really good bite for the filler to bond to and do a great job of sealing the bare metal to prevent rust.

The facts about filler before primer is what I have been researching for about 2 months now. But I have concluded that many reputable places say that its fine to put the epoxy down first.

 

When you did your body, what were the steps there? Did you completely media blast the shell? I'm on the verge with my car, cant wait!!!!!

 

I plan to blast, prime, then start cutting and welding.

[charliekwin]

1 hour ago, wheee! said:

Some people insist on filler before primer

I'm not an expert by any means, but in the course of my research, almost all the people who advocated for filler over bare metal were the "old timers." As best as I could tell, epoxy -> filler -> primers seems to be the fairly universal best practice these days.

[wheee!]

47 minutes ago, DC871F said:

The facts about filler before primer is what I have been researching for about 2 months now. But I have concluded that many reputable places say that its fine to put the epoxy down first.

 

When you did your body, what were the steps there? Did you completely media blast the shell? I'm on the verge with my car, cant wait!!!!!

 

I plan to blast, prime, then start cutting and welding.

If you have week or two to spare, the entire process is documented in this thread and makes for a decent read... 

The Cole's Notes version is, yes, I media blasted to bare metal, welded etc,  then epoxied the entire shell (except for the exterior panels which were not blasted) before using any filler.

28 minutes ago, charliekwin said:

I'm not an expert by any means, but in the course of my research, almost all the people who advocated for filler over bare metal were the "old timers." As best as I could tell, epoxy -> filler -> primers seems to be the fairly universal best practice these days.

I agree. If you are using traditional paint and primer products, then bare metal then filler. But the new 2K epoxy's  are marvelous to work with.

I also use an thinned epoxy as a sealer over the finished body filler to seal it all in. That can be sanded and hi-build used over that for finish blocking.

[Zed Head]

You can't really group all fillers and/or all primers and/or all "epoxies" in to single groups, to mix and match.  "Epoxy" just describes one tiny part of a paint or filler, the varieties of coatings systems that use epoxy end groups is huge.  Chemical compatibility would be determined by the whole thing.  The same goes for 2K urethanes.  Which probably contain epoxy groups, along with numerous other components.

Your best bet would be to use a system from a single manufacturer, that's been proven and tested.  Besides the immediate results you might get from experimenting, long-term results can be dramatically different.  Even the car makers got burned in the 90's by using a system that didn't block UV light from the sun.  All of those old Ford Rangers and GM trucks with the exposed primer in big giant patches came from that failed advance in coatings technology.  The UV got through and destroyed the bond of the top coat to the primer.  They shortcutted the environmental tests and paid for it.

Short response - these aren't the same materials the old-timers were using.

[DC871F]

3 minutes ago, wheee! said:

If you have week or two to spare, the entire process is documented in this thread and makes for a decent read... 

The Cole's Notes version is, yes, I media blasted to bare metal, welded etc,  then epoxied the entire shell (except for the exterior panels which were not blasted) before using any filler.

I agree. If you are using traditional paint and primer products, then bare metal then filler. But the new 2K epoxy's  are marvelous to work with.

I also use an thinned epoxy as a sealer over the finished body filler to seal it all in. That can be sanded and hi-build used over that for finish blocking.

Funny, I'm reading from page 1 as we speak.

I need all the help I can get. The (scary) (encouraging) (inspiring) part is, your pictures and descriptions are identical to my project so far. I WONT TURN BACK!

I have had this car for years (10+) sitting. The thing I am afraid of is it "taking" over my life. I have had about 4 240Z's in the past, but were all drivers, but I learned a lot.

I just always wanted to do this, build a car that was mine. I started a thread a few months ago. I had a lot of time off from work (paid) so I spent most of it completely dissembling the car, now its time to plan the attack.

Thanks for documenting your work.

 

[wheee!]

11 minutes ago, DC871F said:

Funny, I'm reading from page 1 as we speak.

I need all the help I can get. The (scary) (encouraging) (inspiring) part is, your pictures and descriptions are identical to my project so far. I WONT TURN BACK!

I have had this car for years (10+) sitting. The thing I am afraid of is it "taking" over my life. I have had about 4 240Z's in the past, but were all drivers, but I learned a lot.

I just always wanted to do this, build a car that was mine. I started a thread a few months ago. I had a lot of time off from work (paid) so I spent most of it completely dissembling the car, now its time to plan the attack.

Thanks for documenting your work.

 

Glad to be of assistance! I made a deal with the wife that I would work on the car mainly in the winter months and not let it monopolize my life or finances. Sometimes I don't get to work on the car for weeks at a time (and because I am military and often away). Don't rush your project, plan the time to do it right, be prepared for setbacks and make sure that the important people in your life are on board with your plans, both financially and emotionally. If your significant other resents the time and money being spent on the car, it will make your life miserable.

[wheee!]

16 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

You can't really group all fillers and/or all primers and/or all "epoxies" in to single groups, to mix and match.  "Epoxy" just describes one tiny part of a paint or filler, the varieties of coatings systems that use epoxy end groups is huge.  Chemical compatibility would be determined by the whole thing.  The same goes for 2K urethanes.  Which probably contain epoxy groups, along with numerous other components.

Your best bet would be to use a system from a single manufacturer, that's been proven and tested.  Besides the immediate results you might get from experimenting, long-term results can be dramatically different.  Even the car makers got burned in the 90's by using a system that didn't block UV light from the sun.  All of those old Ford Rangers and GM trucks with the exposed primer in big giant patches came from that failed advance in coatings technology.  The UV got through and destroyed the bond of the top coat to the primer.  They shortcutted the environmental tests and paid for it.

Short response - these aren't the same materials the old-timers were using.

Very true Zed. Use a proven combination of products and read the labels carefully. Mix and prepare the products as per the manufacturers direction and you should be good to go.

There are times I wish I was using the old school products, albeit at a greater health risk...!

[DC871F]

5 minutes ago, wheee! said:

Glad to be of assistance! I made a deal with the wife that I would work on the car mainly in the winter months and not let it monopolize my life or finances. Sometimes I don't get to work on the car for weeks at a time (and because I am military and often away). Don't rush your project, plan the time to do it right, be prepared for setbacks and make sure that the important people in your life are on board with your plans, both financially and emotionally. If your significant other resents the time and money being spent on the car, it will make your life miserable.

Great advice. My wife is on board, so that the biggest relief in the pressure of taking this on.

[DC871F]

2 hours ago, wheee! said:

If you have week or two to spare, the entire process is documented in this thread and makes for a decent read... 

The Cole's Notes version is, yes, I media blasted to bare metal, welded etc,  then epoxied the entire shell (except for the exterior panels which were not blasted) before using any filler.

I agree. If you are using traditional paint and primer products, then bare metal then filler. But the new 2K epoxy's  are marvelous to work with.

I also use an thinned epoxy as a sealer over the finished body filler to seal it all in. That can be sanded and hi-build used over that for finish blocking.

Page 16, you just got the spindle pin out.........

If only had some pop corn it would be better.

[wheee!]

Packages showed up! Mail strikes suck when parts take an extra week to get here.
So the Mr. Gasket cable looks very well made.


It fits inside the linkage guides perfect.


The firewall length will be close... anyone with a 280 able to measure the distance to the end linkage loop on the intake from the firewall?

[Captain Obvious]

9 minutes ago, wheee! said:

anyone with a 280 able to measure the distance to the end linkage loop on the intake from the firewall?

Tape measure quality measurements:

About 14.5 inches direct shot (as the crow files).
About 4" elevation change (the holes in the intake manifold are 4" higher than the hole in the firewall).
About 3" side-to-side change (the holes in the intake manifold are about 3" further toward the centerline of the vehicle than the hole in the firewall).

And remember that you want a little slack in the cable between the firewall and the engine to allow for engine movement. You don't want it so tight that when the engine moves, it changes the throttle position.