Mis-Informed Youtube Video

[Mike]

Mike,

I wrote out the facts about the incorporation of NMC-USA in the previous thread that this one was split off from, and you simply deleted them. So I will repeat here:

Alan, apologies I sent you a message on this subject, accidentally deleted when I moved the threads around. I agree that we need to keep it organic. Feel free to post the info back on the other thread if you'd like.

 

About Wikipedia: It's useful as a resource for some things, but if we want hard facts and opinion that has been peer-group critiqued about the S30-series Z and the related history that surrounds it, then classiczcars.com is probably one of the best places to search. If WE don't get it right, then who will? 

 

So by all means take a shot at editing Wikipedia, but don't forget you're already standing at the foot of the lighthouse.

I gave it a shot tonight using some of the information we have here in this post.  What do you guys think?

[HS30-H]

Mr. Ishihara’s offices were located in Japan, so Mr. K. was the first President of "Nissan Motor Corporation in U.S.A.” â€¦ who was located in the U.S.A.

 

So perhaps it was poorly phrased -“Nissan’s first President in U.S.A."  - but for the most part I think the fact that Mr. K was the first person outside of the Nissan Corporate Offices in Japan - to be elevated to that level of authority, President of a wholly own Nissan Subsidiary here in the US is significant.

 

 

Carl,

It could also be surmised that the decision to give ISHIHARA the post of President for five years (and KAWAZOE and KATAYAMA the position of Vice Presidents) was significant. It's open to interpretation from whatever viewpoint you want to hold on it.

 

I'm sorry, but Yutaka Katayama's claim ("I started the company...") is taken far too literally - just like many of the things he said. The truth is that Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. of Japan started NMC-USA as part of a wider - GLOBAL - plan to expand its Export sales by taking closer control of the importation, distribution and servicing of its products. It had already started similar subsidiary companies in other countries that would become significant Export markets, so NMC-USA wasn't the first.

 

 

Mr. K. hired the attorney that wrote and filed the paperwork that created the corporation, and was one of three Nissan Employees that signed the Articles of Incorporation for "Nissan Motor Corporation in U.S.A."

 

 

That attorney was Reid Briggs, who had already worked on Nissan's behalf when Marubeni Corporation was importing the first 'Datsun' branded Nissan products to the USA from 1957, overseen by Koichi IWATA of Nissan Japan's Export Department, before Katayama (and Kawazoe) arrived in the USA in 1960. 

[HS30-H]

I've tried contributing to Wikipedia in the past (notably on the subject of Albrecht Goertz) but my input was soon edited back again.

 

Far better to make sure that we have the correct information here. And unlike Wikipedia, we have the knowledge, ability and format to discuss topics at length - with supporting evidence in the form of documents and photos - and come to a conclusion (or at least an 'open verdict' on the more contentious points) and all this can be accessed and researched. 

 

We have it here. Please don't lose sight of that.

[Mike]

I've tried contributing to Wikipedia in the past (notably on the subject of Albrecht Goertz) but my input was soon edited back again.

 

Far better to make sure that we have the correct information here. And unlike Wikipedia, we have the knowledge, ability and format to discuss topics at length - with supporting evidence in the form of documents and photos - and come to a conclusion (or at least an 'open verdict' on the more contentious points) and all this can be accessed and researched. 

 

We have it here. Please don't lose sight of that.

 

Alan, I agree this site is probably the best source of genuine information about the Z.  I am not neglecting that fact.  However, I still think a site like Wikipedia should be edited for inaccuracy or missing information, especially since the capability is there.  I made an edit to include your comments as well as Carl's, and it look like the change is still there.  I'll have to add our site as part of their reference material.

 

As far as the references to him being a "designer" of the Z.. you might want to consider taking this with a grain of salt.  Unless the article specifically identifies him as a person who drew the plans or created the model, it might be somewhat of a loose term.  For instance, this could be similar to how people think Steve Jobs created the iPod, or Bill Gates created his operating systems, or how many of the recent pop-artists are considered writers.  Most of these aspects wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for someone to bring the vision to fruition.

 

I've seen so many great ideas die just because there is nobody who believes enough to stand behind them.  Maybe he should have been called the architect.

[TomoHawk]

 

About Wikipedia: It's useful as a resource for some things, but if we want hard facts and opinion that has been peer-group critiqued about the S30-series Z and the related history that surrounds it, then classiczcars.com is probably one of the best places to search. If WE don't get it right, then who will? 

 

 

The TV show hosts have the 'facts' that kids will hear and accept as facts.  Then there are websites like zcars.com, that also have the indisputable 'facts,' and even some other websites (carznutz.com?) Finally, there is the collaboration of people on the street with information that can be verified by other people on the street....

 

Doesn't anyone bother reading books, with bibliographies and stuff like that, so you can cross-reference the facts?

[TomoHawk]

As far as the references to him being a "designer" of the Z.. you might want to consider taking this with a grain of salt.   For instance, this could be similar to how people think Steve Jobs created the iPod, or Bill Gates created his operating systems, or how many of the recent pop-artists are considered writers.  Most of these aspects wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for someone to bring the vision to fruition.

 Maybe he should have been called the architect.

I assume the person in the video knew what he was saying when he used the word "designer."  He should have explained what he meant by it, then he could freely use it afterwards.

 

Architect,  visionary, mastermind, or just the Father of the Z. 

[HS30-H]

As far as the references to him being a "designer" of the Z.. you might want to consider taking this with a grain of salt.  Unless the article specifically identifies him as a person who drew the plans or created the model, it might be somewhat of a loose term.  For instance, this could be similar to how people think Steve Jobs created the iPod, or Bill Gates created his operating systems, or how many of the recent pop-artists are considered writers.  Most of these aspects wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for someone to bring the vision to fruition.

 

I've seen so many great ideas die just because there is nobody who believes enough to stand behind them.  Maybe he should have been called the architect.

 

Even calling him the "architect" is going too far. It's too late to turn back the clock now, but ideally we'd be going back to Year Zero and simply not thinking of Yutaka Katayama as being any kind of product creator.

 

Katayama had no such remit. He simply wasn't tasked with being a product planner, and nor was any Vice President or President of NMC-USA during the period before Nissan started manufacturing automobiles in the USA. Not only that, but the cars that Katayama's name has been synonymous with (namely the 510-series Bluebird and the S30-series Z) were not created at his sole request or designed and engineered solely for one market. In fact, during the period we are talking about - and for long afterward - there were no vehicles that were conceived, designed and engineered solely for the USA market that Katayama was responsible for when he was President. The 510 and S30 would have been created whether Katayama existed or not. Perhaps we could argue that they might not have been quite the same, but it's unlikely - if not impossible - that Nissan would not have had updated and re-designed Bluebirds and Fairladies (take those 'Bluebird' and 'Fairlady' emblems off and stick a '510' and '240' in their place if you want) to bring to market to meet new laws and regulations as well as consumer expectations. A big company like Nissan had to have models in those market sectors. After all, it had everything else in its line-up.

 

I don't think the Steve Jobs / Bill Gates comparison stands up to scrutiny as Katayama was never the 'boss' of a company which designed and built the product it sold whilst he was boss. He was President of NMC-USA from 1965 to 1975, and during that period NMC-USA could only lobby Nissan Motors Japan for influence over what it wanted to sell, and that had to fit into the bigger picture - ie what was possible and what was convenient considering Nissan's other Export commitments and - most importantly for a Japanese auto maker in that period  - its Domestic activities.  

 

Somehow we have arrived at a situation where a great man - a seminal figure in Nissan's history - is being remembered for the wrong reasons. Platitudes "thanking" Katayama for giving/bringing/creating certain cars are well-intentioned but are starting out with a premise that is mistaken. In contrast, the tributes from the likes of Bob Bondurant and Pete Brock tell of their personal respect for the man, and how he was both a help and an inspiration to them and their work. That's the kind of thing we should be remembering him for. It was Yutaka Katayama's fine work (along with that of Soichi Kawazoe and many others) in building NMC-USA's dealer and servicing network, and in being the friendly, approachable and trustworthy face of an otherwise slightly anonymous and deeply foreign company that was the big achievement here. They sold the product. MNC-USA could probably have sold plenty of product in the north American market during the period we are talking about, but if it wasn't for Katayama we probably wouldn't hold it in quite the same affection as we do.

 

There's plenty more I could write on the subject - and it's a BIG subject - but people see much of this as some kind of attack on Katayama and his memory. That's not the intention, and I hope that - in time - we will start to understand Yutaka Katayama's life and legacy in a more realistic and accurate way. I think all great men deserve that.