Identifying 5 Speeds.1)

[Zed Head]

Actually, I was kind of lazy in my response.  The ratios are listed for the 5 speed in the FSM.  5th is not direct.  The "mysterious" 5 speed I was referring to is commonly called the direct-drive 5 speed dogleg "comp" box.  Comp for competition.  I think it was an option from Nissan at some time.

 

Anyway, even if there was a list of codes for the transmissions, with the interchangeable parts you'd still have to do some calculations or open it up to know what you had.

 

From the 1972 FSM.  Note that the ratios do seem backward, compared to the ratios of the transmissions.  The 5 speed needs the 3.9, and the 4 speed, the 3.36.  

Edited February 26, 2015 by Zed Head

[bhbarr]

Great info guys!

 

So now I'm looking for a close ratio Z or ZX 5 speed and a 3.90 diff (out of a Subaru WRX STi)

 

Thanks!

 

BB

[EuroDat]

You can also use a 3.9 R200 (long nose) out of a 300ZX And the half shafts, tail shaft out and lower cross member (behind the diff) from a 280Z.

The R200 would be the cheapest And will cost around $500.

The STi will be a lot more expensive. Just the Wolf creek half shafts and odd bits and pieces will set you back more than $500.

Chris did the R200 changeover on his 240Z. See post #11. He could give you some pointers if you choose that route.

There is also a good thread hear on doing the STi (LSD) diff swap.

Chas

[Zed Head]

Did you mean 280ZX 3.9 long-nose?  That's the typical diff for the 280ZX.  The 300ZX NA's came with 3.7, typical, and have a different flange pattern.  More work, to swap the flange so a 280Z or 240Z propeller shaft can be used.

[EuroDat]

Did you mean 280ZX 3.9 long-nose?  That's the typical diff for the 280ZX.  The 300ZX NA's came with 3.7, typical, and have a different flange pattern.  More work, to swap the flange so a 280Z or 240Z propeller shaft can be used.

Yes, you are right, I did mean the 280Z NA manual 1981 onwards. My mind was still in 71C mode. The 300ZX would work, but it would need the pinion flange from a 280.. R200. Since he has a 240Z with the R180 the 300ZX R200 seems pretty much pointless sourcing it.

Chas

[Matthew Abate]

I have another thread going in the parts swap section about the 83/84 200sx FS5w71b. Anyone know how much it needs modifying and how hard it is to do to get it to fit a 240z/280z?

Can't seem to find anyone who's done it.

/M

[Zed Head]

I've done it, and I think that EuroDat has, and Blue has a writeup on the atlanticz web site.  If you're handy with a drill and some grinding tools, it's really not too difficult home garage work, if you swap to the smaller countershaft bearing.  The most accuracy is required for enlarging the hole for the larger countershaft bearing that Nissan started using in the 71C units.  That requires some machinist level skill.  Without that, it's fairly common wrenching, some drilling, and some grinding.  Then there's finding a shorter driveshaft, and modifying the transmission mount.  I cut slots in my stock mount, but some people prefer to cut and weld.

Overall, there's some ingenuity required.  Several different ways to get it done, but nothing super-difficult.

Full disclosure - I have not mounted mine in the car yet.  I have everything, just not in yet.  I did spin it through the gears on the back of a spare engine that I have in the garage though.  No issues.  Mine was from a 1985 300ZX.

[EuroDat]

14 hours ago, Matthew Abate said:

I have another thread going in the parts swap section about the 83/84 200sx FS5w71b. Anyone know how much it needs modifying and how hard it is to do to get it to fit a 240z/280z?

Can't seem to find anyone who's done it.

/M

The 83 had the Z series engines. The bell housing will bolt up to the L-engine, but the tranny will lean to the passenger side.

The easiest way to identify which bell housing it is: Look at the ridge going up the centre of the bell housing. Looking from the transmission towards the engine.

If the ridge is close to the right bolt hole its a Z-series bell housing.

If the ridge is close to the left bolt hole its a L-series bell housing.

In the middle between the top two bolt holes its a VG-series V6 bell housing.

Both the Z and VG bell housings will need to be changed. It seems like a lot of trouble just to get a FS5W71B transmission in a Zed. Something that is a fairly common feature in the 280Z. You won't need to modify the bell housing like the 71C, but still I think I would look for a 280Z or ZX. If you don't wont a close ratio gearbox (in front of the 3.36 diff) go for the 280Z or a 280ZX 2+2. The wide ratio Zed tranny is similar to the 200SX. Thats probably why you haven't seen it done yet.

 

[Matthew Abate]

Quote

I agree with EuroDat from your other post (too many posts spread around on the same subject!) that unless you get the right "71C' tranmssion, there's not much benefit to the work.  The guys that did this swap originally did it for wider stronger gears, more better synchros (reverse synchro for example and a double cone 2nd and 3rd), and the stronger bearing.  Plus, apparently, the shifting mechanism is better.  Along with just general newerness and maybe some small fixes that come with most redesigns.

I mentioned in one of your other threads that I did this with a 1985 300ZX transmission.  But I got the transmission for $20 from a young guy on Craigslist whose mother told him it had to go (he listed it for $100, but when I paused on the phone he dropped to $20 - it had to go now!  I almost felt bad.).  And the bellhousing for $50 (blown up mystery ZX 5 speed).  So now I have a part that can be swapped to a 1994 240SX unit, but the 85 300ZX trans itself just offers the new shifting mechanism.  Gear widths are the same, I swapped the bearing, not much true benefit, except a good condition $70 transmission.  Plus it was a good reason to buy a drill press. 

The hole for the shift rod only needs slight enlargement.  Almost like a reaming operation.  The right tool will self-center itself, it's almost impossible to mess up.  

Get on to the Nismo site and find the car your transmission came from.  The MT chapter will have an exploded diagram showing the synchros, and will have the gear ratios (to be sure).

I don't actually own it yet, and it's two states away, so I can't tear it open. The guy who has it can't tell me which car it is, and it hasn't been rebuilt or anything. I have a feeling that I might be able to get it for under $100, which is why I'm interested. No idea what a bell housing will cost me, so I'm trying to evaluate the merits of the project.

 

Quote

The 83 had the Z series engines. The bell housing will bolt up to the L-engine, but the tranny will lean to the passenger side.

The easiest way to identify which bell housing it is: Look at the ridge going up the centre of the bell housing. Looking from the transmission towards the engine.

If the ridge is close to the right bolt hole its a Z-series bell housing.

If the ridge is close to the left bolt hole its a L-series bell housing.

In the middle between the top two bolt holes its a VG-series V6 bell housing.

Both the Z and VG bell housings will need to be changed. It seems like a lot of trouble just to get a FS5W71B transmission in a Zed. Something that is a fairly common feature in the 280Z. You won't need to modify the bell housing like the 71C, but still I think I would look for a 280Z or ZX. If you don't wont a close ratio gearbox (in front of the 3.36 diff) go for the 280Z or a 280ZX 2+2. The wide ratio Zed tranny is similar to the 200SX. Thats probably why you haven't seen it done yet.

So the CA series engines also used the Z series bell housing? The pictures I have of the one I am looking at definitely match a Z series pictures you posted above, and I knew going into the conversation that the bell housing would need swapping. Haven't looked into how hard sourcing a bell housing is, but have been looking into the aftermarket brands like Lakewood (perhaps foolishly?).

I originally had my eyes on transmissions from 280Zs and ZXs, but the more research I did the more Nissan & Datsun cars I found with 71Bs in them, and the more I found the more I liked the ratios of some of those other cars more. The tall 3.545 first gear pair with the short 0.813 fifth gear PLUS the smooth spacing of everything in between makes the 1983 200SX / S12 71B seem like the best option, but it's sounding like you guys don't recommend it.

Maybe the difference is negligible enough that it's not worth the effort unless I have all the stuff just laying around, but Datsun 5-speeds are going for $700+ and this funky beast is cheep by comparison.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Matthew Abate

[Zed Head]

 I think that he meant NAPS-Z.  Maybe.  The tell on the bellhousing is the position of the starter mounting area relative to the bolt holes and flat top section.  It will look higher on the VG30 and the other engines. 

Can't you post a picture?  Use the Snipping Tool in Windows.

[Matthew Abate]

 

Stamp on the housing says TA71B #1.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Matthew Abate

[Zed Head]

Posting a picture from the 1986 200SX FSM.  Maybe the FSM is wrong.  But if it's wrong there, gear ratios might be wrong also.  I still don't know what the C and the B signify.  Maybe just the change in countershaft bearing size.  Nissan used the 71C designation all the way up to 1994 in the 240SX, maybe beyond.

I did find something in the MT chapter.  Two transmissions.  Could be they left out the CA18ET variations.

Looks like a good puzzle.  You could have the guy check the 1st gear ratio.  3.592 is over 3 1/2 turns,  3.321 is less.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Zed Head