I need a psychiatrist!!!!!!

[Smokey]

Hmmmm, been looking at too many rears tonight :classic: . Does there seem to be a difference in these two cars. look where I have circled around the tail pipe. On the red one, the driver's quarter seems to come up too high. Maybe a real bad patch job from rust. On the orange one, the quarter is level with the rear valance. This is original metal, and no repair has taken place.

Am I seeing things or is this a little fishy?

[2ManyZs]

Looks like someone backed into something and rolled the lip of the rear panel... Or someone parked too close and hit the tail pipe and pushed it into the panel.

Not too hard to fix if it isn't creased too bad or been compromised by rust, and it is right at the seam between the quarter and rear tail panel so you would need to check the weld after straightening.

As far as the Optima battery? It's kinda the old saying: "shut the barn door after the horses got out".

FWIW, my 71 had similar rust under the battery tray, after removing the tray, I removed all the rust and had a pitted surface that I cleaned thoroughly and have now got it covered with primer until I can get some POR-15 on it. Mine did have some streaks down to the frame rail as well, but luckily it was only on the surface as after stripping the paint the metal was clean. The frame rail was very tight against the inner fender luckily, not the usual gaps between the spot welds, so hopefully, it won't cause any trouble later.

I seriously doubt if you will ever, ever find a Z that hasn't had(or have)at least minor surface rust under the tray.

[ZmeFly]

its like this, if the car is for sale for 11 big ones, im expecting to see a perfect rust free car. for 11k it has to be perfect. good paint, good interior, no problems and not needing nothing.

thats what i would expect from an 11k car. im sorry but if there is any sort of descrepencies, then oh well see ya.

ill put it to you this way, the last car i bought was a 71 from los angeles. cost of the car was 2800 dollars.

this is what i found wrong with the car. small amount of surface rust under the battery tray, under the passenger seat there was a bit of rust, and the springs and struts needed to be replaced.

that was it. it did have some small dings in the car but i planned on repainting it anway. the undercarriage was so clean and so free of rust that taking out the 4 speed for the five speed was a dream, nothing stuck together or anything. nothing rusted. what a pleasure.

what im saying is finding Z's for a lot less isnt that hard. i found a great Z that i let go and shouldnt have.

basically what im saying is the cars that you are looking at are priced really high and the quality of the car should reflect the price.

its just the way i look at it but if i have the money to afford an 11k Z it best be perfect.

if you were willing to travel you could do much better on the west side then the east side and the money you save can go to upgrades, paint change or the like, making it what you want it to be.

just my .02

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by Smokey

Am I seeing things or is this a little fishy?

Smokey:

Yeah, the top picture (red car) does look funky. Something has moved the lower valance inward towards the center of the car. The orange car looks correct. As mentioned by others, it should not be a "major" issue to correct, assuming you were planning on having body work and painting done to the car. But for $8.8K it is IMO an unacceptable descrepancy. The price should be lower to reflect that and the battery rust.

Next time I need a battery, I will be shopping for an Optima, or similar. Better late than never.

FWIW, Bambikiller came to me with very minor "surface rust" unde the battery support. It was not from acid leakage, but from moisture collecting in the plastic battery tray which had the drain hose plugged with debris. It was the kind of rust that is born of metal, air, and water, NOT the type of rust (actually "acidic corrosion") caused by battery acid eating metal. With a replacement of the battery tray and a little effort to ensure that the drain doesn't get plugged, the situation has not gotten any worse since I aquired the car. It will be addressed properly with sandblasting and POR15 treatment once and for all when I pull the engine for rebuild or replacement. (someday)

Common suraface rust is far different than acidic corrosion which cannot be stopped until the acid is completely removed or completely neutralized, which is tough to do when it is inside the seams, joints and/or frame rails.

[Smokey]

Carl, Just so I know. What does the acid rust look like when compared to moisture rust. The orange car has what looks to be lime green trails coming from the tray. The rust is peeling the (thin) layer of paint up in about a 12"x15" patch under the tray down to the rail. I am assuming this is from acid.

Going to go and look at the Asheboro car before work. I'll report back when I get a chance.

[Smokey]

Just got back from looking at the car in Asheboro. This is the same car that was up on Ebay until today. It is also on Collector Car Trader if anyone is looking at it.

He never did get any bids on Ebay, and he wants $12.5 for it on trader. The way he describes it, it sounds wonderfully restored. I nibbled at the bait and went down to see it. The previous owner traded it for a Mazda MX6 (so that tells you how much he valued his Z).

I did a walk around and here is what I found. The rockers both have rust blisters showing and the trailing edge near the rear wheel is packed with Bondo. As I tapped with my magic knuckle the rocker went tink, tink, tink, clunk, and finally thud behind the weld seam. Clunks are OK, cause that is just layered metal. The thud has little metal content.

The cowl vents are pitted heavily and rust is beginning to show in the crevices. I imagine the underside of the cowl looks aweful. The driver's fender does not fit as snug as it should, indicating possible collision damage. The quarter panel beside the tail pipe is damaged. It looks like it got hung on a curb. The weld seam has been compromised up to the tail light where it has actually broken. All emblems are there, but in need of restoration.

The kicker was when I started to look in the fender wells. It looked like the fronts had been coated with POR-15 by brush. It was all clean, and I could see no rust----except----for under the battery compartment. About 8 inches of the weld seam was under attack by body rot. This came down approx a 1/4 of an inch into the undercoating. This was a bad sign from the picture I had seen/posted. I decided then and there that this was not the car. But, I decided to look it over in case anyone here wanted to know about it.

I got Barry (owner) to open the car up. The hatch was the first area I looked at. The seams on the deck were coated with POR-15, but looked solid. The hatch was in good shape. The full carpet kit looked real good. The spare tire well had some surface rust in the low portions, along with built up debris. All finish panels appeared to be in fair to good condition.

Under the hood things were pretty clean. The strut towers has POR-15 applied to the seams. There was an overflow jug in front of the radiator on the driver's side. The radiator looked new and the coolant was a good shade of green (important later on). under the battery was the evidence of major rust damage. Massive pitting was still there, but painted over. The rust had begun to spring up again in the place that the picture shows earlier in the post. The damage covered the wheel house, firewall, and inner fender. Of course, it also went into the seam. Appeared solid, but I did not remove the battery to examine.

Inside both floor pans were solid but had a good amount of rust developing near the toe boards, and along the edges. The carpet kit was stuck in several places, so I could not pull all of it out. The hole in the firewall around the master cylinger was corroded from brake fluid. The interior plastic was in good shape. The choke handle was broken, and the glove box was collapsed. The gages all worked cept for the clock.

When driving it, there was a fair amount of exhaust fumes getting into the cabin. It would also hesitate and backfire even after getting to operating temp. Everything sounded good mechanically. However, I did notice sitting at a stop light, the temp gage went up about 3/4 of the way to the end of the sweep. This went back down when we pulled away. Looks like this car has some cooling issues as it was prolly 45 degrees when I was driving it. The exhaust makes some noise when the motor is turned up from movement and torquing.

Bottom line--the car is worth about $3000. A far cry from the $12,500 he thinks he will be getting. Lemme know if I can answer any more questions on this car.

Oh yeah, one more thing. The brakes feel like the master cylinder is shot. Only a few hard stops until you are driving the flinstone mobile. Rest of the suspension is fine.

[2ManyZs]

Sounds like he'll need someone like the buyer of the 146 dollar wiper blades to come look at it before he gets his asking price then....:stupid: :devious:

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by Smokey

Carl, Just so I know. What does the acid rust look like when compared to moisture rust. The orange car has what looks to be lime green trails coming from the tray. The rust is peeling the (thin) layer of paint up in about a 12"x15" patch under the tray down to the rail. I am assuming this is from acid.

Going to go and look at the Asheboro car before work. I'll report back when I get a chance.

Smokey:

Sorry I missed your post earlier today. Rust from moisture is the typical "red" rust with no hints of "green or white fuzz" growing on the metal. If it is from moisture alone all you will see is the red flakey stuff that is the actual metal that is dissolving . The acid type of corrosion does turn the metal red and darker, but also the chemical reaction from the acid leaves residue in the form of the white and/or green powdery stuff. That is what signals acid corrosion. Sellers that know that they have, will tend to wash and brush the white and green off of the car, but within a few weeks or months it will reappear in the same spots. This is why I am so leary of rust on the battery area. Any hint of white or green powder makes me run in the other direction. It is SO hard to neutralize it all that on my previous Z they had to disassemble the entire front corner (inner fender, frame rail and rail under the floor pan. I had already removed the battery support) to stop the acid.

Yeah, the later post you wrote today confirms tha the eBay car is not at all worth the asking price. Not even close. Skip that one and concentrate on a deal for the other car, or keep looking.

Good Luck!

Carl

[Smokey]

Thanks for the clarification on the battery rust Carl. I'm going back to look at the orange one on Wednesday morning. I plan on pulling the battery and poking around to see just what will be involved there. I will also take some pictures if I can get my hands on a digicam (the polariod sux).

As I remember the rust is kinda tan on the orange car. The paint is flaking off, like scales. There are lime green.....ummmm......striations????. They look like a slow paint drip that ran down the inner fender. This is on top of the paint. To confuse matters, where the paint was wetsanded before, there is lots of residue that has dripped down in this area too. I need to go in and wipe everything down to fully evaluate what is there.

I'll keep you posted.

[Bambikiller240]

Smokey:

In addition to looking down into the engine compartment, look inside the wheel well in the location where the "back side" of the spot welds for battery support attachment are. (do you know what I'm trying to convey?) Depending on if there is undecoat you might be able to see if there has been any rust through. You can press on the metal to see if it flexes more than in places that are obviously solid, indicating that the area is getting thin, or weak from the corrosion. Also look at the frame rails from below, from directly below the battery all the way back to the support rail below the floorpan for signs of the green or white powdery substance.

[Smokey]

Yeah, I know what you are trying to convey. It is the same spot that I saw rust through on the Red one in the passenger wheel well.

Thanks for the advice, I will be putting it through all these tests on Wednesday.