Beck Arnley Vs. Posi Quiet Plus That Voice In Your Head

[Zed Head]

I've had this nagging thought that I should check the wear on my front brake pads but haven't done it.  Recently I started hearing a mild crunchy noise while braking, especially at low speed.  I tried braking with just the parking brake and no noise so took a wheel off.  And decided it was time to install my new Posi Quiet ceramic pads.  See pictures.

 

The Posi Quiets have their own, already glued on, shims and are not supposed to need more.  So I left the factory shims off and haven't heard a peep except for a touch of squeal when braking in reverse.  But the stock shims did that too.

 

So if you have squeal and can't get the factory shims, these pads seem to do the job.  Everything needed is in the box, pads, pins, cotter pins, and anti-rattle hardware, and the shims are already attached to the pads.  The Beck Arnleys did work great with the factory shims but squealed badly with the shims they came with.  I got maximum usage from them.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Zed Head

[Zed Head]

My Posi Quiet pads (or maybe just one pad) started squealing very loudly when cold after the car sat in the garage for about a week.  Maybe started by some rotor rust. After they warmed up, no more squeal.  After a few days of driving the squeal dropped to almost nothing.  Maybe a hard spot on the pad material.

 

Just an update.  They're not perfect.  Thought I was going to have to put the factory shims back in.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Zed Head

[siteunseen]

I wish I could hear a squeak out mine now, too loud. Going one day this week and have a resonator installed.

[Zed Head]

The cold squeal came back.  Had to put the Nissan shims back in, couldn't stand it.  These pads are no different than the others.  They all squeal without the factory shims.

 

Did get a bonus though, while I was working on the fronts I looked at the back wheel and saw the head of the roofing tack that was causing my right rear tire to lose air.  Pulled it out and stabbed the hole with the tar-soaked strip of cloth from the flat repair kit and now I'm back to baseline.

[John Coffey]

When shimming brake pads you want the trailing end of the pad to engage the rotor surface first.  That reduces the vibration (and squeal) if the pad hit the rotors normal to the rotor surface.  

[Zed Head]

Don't the pads eventually wear down to "normal" orientation?

 

There seems to be something about the blend and design of parts on the Z's that lends itself to squeal.  I threw away the shims on my Pathfinder front brakes years ago, by accident, and they've never squealed, even after the second set of shimless pads.  But my Z brakes have always squealed, with three different brands of pads, and the aftermarket anti-squeal shims, and anti-squeal goop in a can sprayed n the backs, and high-temperature grease, etc.  None of the tricks work, only the Nissan shims.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though.  Maybe some pad shaping with a grinder would help.  Easier to just go with factory parts.

[Chickenman]

" If " you can find Akebono Ceramic pads for your Z they are awesome. But I've done some searching and haven't come up with anything.

 

 

Bendix Pads are also usually very good. They have a Ceramic low dust pad, although I usually prefer a Bendix Premium Semi- Metallic. A bit more dust, but more stopping power than most Ceramic pads. Good enough for mild Track Days.

 

Wagner pads usually very good quality. Rock Auto carries a Ceramic version for our cars.

 

StopTech ( Centric performance division ) are Shite... IMHO

Edited October 12, 2015 by Chickenman

[Chickenman]

ZH: Do you have the Factory anti-rattle clips installed on your pads? Often missing but thye make a big difference in preventing squeal. Part # 41083-E4100

 

[Zed Head]

Yes, the anti-rattle pieces are installed.  Odd that they call them anti-rattle if they're actually anti-squeal.

 

It's not a question of pad quality, it's how to keep them from squealing.  Are you running any of the pads you mentioned, without added shims and without any squealing at all, cold or hot? 

[Chickenman]

I'm running Bendix Semi Metallic right now, and I have no squealing at all. However I am running Nissan 300ZX-TT 4 piston calipers.

 

On the flip side I have run Bendix semi metallic in many types of cars and have Autocrossed and Hill climbed with them. Have never had them squeal on any car.  If you can find the Titanium II Bendix pads they are really good. They have a Blue titanium coating that scours the rotor clean of any incompatible deposits from different pads. This conditions the rotor for the bedding of the new pads and the bedding goes much faster.

 

Trouble is finding them for our cars...

 

Edit: Searched Bendix Master Catalog and they don't make the semi-metallic any more ( MKD114 ) . They do however make a Ceramic pad D114 which is a reasonable price.

 

Nuts!! Apparently Bendix has closed down it's North American Production. Most of it has gone to it's Australian factories. EPA strikes again?

Edited October 12, 2015 by Chickenman

[Chickenman]

One of the big deals with pads these days is rotor prep. Many modern pads work on and " adherence " principle of creating friction rather than the older " abrasive " mprinciple ( Semi Metallics and Organics ).

 

The adherence principle actually lays down a layer of pad material on the rotor. Material is constantly transferred back and forth on a molecular level between the pad and rotor and it is this transfer of material that creates friction.

 

A bunch of weird technical stuff, but here's the important part: If you switch pad brands back and forth, the deposit compounds may not be compatible and this can cause pad squealing or even uneven pad deposits, which will grow and feel like warped rotors.

 

So rotor prep is critical with these new pads. Bendix solved the issue with their Titanium series which scoured the old deposits off the rotor surface. EBC uses the same method.

 

You may have to manually remove the old pad deposits. You can either put them on a Brake lathe and take a skim cut, or sand with  some medium Emery cloth using Brake Clean as a cutting agent. You want a non directional finish so circular sanding is required. A Brake lathe and hand sanding works, but you can do it with out the Lathe.

 

Here's a couple of articles explaining the difference between abrasive friction and adherence friction:

 

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/bed-in-theory-definitions-and-procedures/brake-pad-bed-in

 

http://www.essexparts.com/learning-center/cat/brake-rotors/post/Bed-in

 

BTW, I've had horrible experiences with Stop Tech pads. Huge problems with uneven pad deposits ( adherence style pads ) even with brand new rotors and proper bed in procedures followed. Just a warning... 

 

 

[Zed Head]

This is with no separate hanging shims?  That's the question at hand.  Any pad will work and not squeal if you use the factory shims.