Zinc Additives, Cam Shaft Or Rocker Wear, And Mileage - A Poll

[Diseazd]

You're not calling me a "dipstick" are you Blue?    

[AWAUDIO]

For what it's worth, here are references to SAE white papers about ZDDP.

 

http://papers.sae.org/2004-01-2986/

 

And this has a good reference to how much ZDDP to add.  With math included:

 

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=83428

 

Scroll down to "slantsixdan" for the meat of the math.

 

Andy

[Zed Head]

Racing oils are not designed for low mileage.  The base stocks are the same as any other oil - refineries don't make special cracks of racing oil.  They just have a different additive package focused on higher rpm use and heat.  They might also have fewer cleaners/surficants.

Thanks.  It's the detergents that would be the issue, I suppose.  Sludge.

 

Browsing through all of the various oil container labels, and ad copy, and internet information, it's surprising that none of the companies can paint a clear picture of what someone with an old, pre-catalytic converter car can use to keep their old car engine in safe condition.  Seems like there's an opportunity here.  Not to mention all of the old cars with catalytic converters,  What are they supposed to do?

 

Valvoline seems to get closest with their VR-1 but even they can't simply address the basics of everyday use.  Still called a racing oil, with just an insinuation that it's appropriate for daily usage.  Pennzoil doesn't even have a link to their racing oil on the Pennzoil web site.

 

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf

 

Somebody needs to just produce an "old car oil" and supply information about how they address the cam wear issue.  With zero hype.  That would be awesome.

[CanTechZ]

 

 

Somebody needs to just produce an "old car oil" and supply information about how they address the cam wear issue.  With zero hype.  That would be awesome.

 

http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com/index.html  I've never tried these products so I can't endorse them, sorry I could not fit a site with "zero hype"

[240260280z]

You're not calling me a "dipstick" are you Blue?    

It's a Canadian thing... sort of like Tim Hortons:

http://mrlube.com/en/about-mr-lube/history-of-mr--lube.aspx

Edited April 16, 2015 by Blue

[Zed Head]

http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com/index.html  I've never tried these products so I can't endorse them, sorry I could not fit a site with "zero hype"

I did see that, and thought about adding that link.  I just don't know who DA Lubricants of Indiana is.  Or where Brad Penn oil comes from, besides Pennsylvania.  

 

More Google leads to DA.  http://www.dalube.com/

 

Price isn't bad - https://classiccarmotoroil.com/products.php

 

15W-40 seems a little high viscosity and kind of limited.  That's the same weight as Rotella and the diesel oils.  Hmmm...

 

Don't know.  Guess I'm looking for the do-all product from a big name manufacturer, cheap.  I can dream.  At this point the Valvoline VR-1 10W-30 looks like the best option for me, up here where it's often cold.  http://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-VV205-6PK-10W-30-Racing-Motor/dp/B00DJ4FMK2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1429225750&sr=8-2&keywords=valvoline+vr-1+oil

[FastWoman]

FAIW, Chevron Delo 15W-40 is a high detergent, high-zinc dino-oil formulated for diesel engines.  I've found it cleans up my engine's innards pretty well, and it seems to be about the closest thing to the older formulations intended for cars such as ours.  I feel the detergent content can be just as important as the zinc, as our engines typically don't burn very cleanly.  Without proper scrubbing and suspension, the combustion products can precipitate out and polymerize in the engine.  (That's how my Z's engine came to me from the PO.)

 

I used Castrol GTX when I was a kid, and I ran the @#$% out of my poor '75 Z, putting significant miles on it.  I never had a cam wear problem.  I don't use Castrol GTX anymore, but I'll sometimes use Castrol Syntec in other engines.  I once saw some pretty scary test results in which Castrol GTX wound up right at the bottom for protection of high pressure surfaces such as cams.  That made me give up on the product.  But I will say it really kept my engine clean -- very high detergent.

[Zed Head]

FAIW, Chevron Delo 15W-40 is a high detergent, high-zinc dino-oil formulated for diesel engines.  

The diesel oils do/did seem like a good option.  But, I've seen some indications that diesel engines are or will be getting more regulated (good!), and may be using catalysts to clean up the emissions, and that the diesel oils are getting reformulated for that reason, just like the car oils did.  The problem is that since ZDDP is not called out or spec'ed it could disappear with no obligation from the manufacturers to tell anyone.  We'd never no.

 

Might start another thread just to see if anyone has had a stock cam go bad, using plain old motor oil.  Still curious.  VR-1 and GT Racing oils are cheap enough though that the insurance factor makes sense.  VR-1 is even available in the parts stores, no internet gyrations necessary.

[Zed Head]

Here's an interesting web site and an article by a consultant.  Doesn't seem to have an axe to grind either way.  Put your own search terms in, I had ZDDP in the first link.  Lots of good reading (except for the format, it's Powerpoint or giant screen mode...) on all kinds of lubricants, grease oil, synthetic, additives...

 

http://www.lubesngreases.com/search/?zkDo=search&publication=all&query=+zddp

 

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/20213322#/20213322/48

 

 

Obligatory edit.  Had the wrong page linked.

 

Also interesting that he's talking about the phosphorous component of ZDDP.  And one reason to lower ZDDP is because of the sulfur content.  So you can search all three words and find much more stuff.  Zinc, phosphorous, or sulfur.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Zed Head

[Diseazd]

Seems to me, that based on each individual's research and experience, and recommendations by those whom we know and trust, each person has their "favorite" oil. I built plenty of "L" series motors in the 70's and didn't pay much attention to oil other than we used non detergent oil to break in a new build (so the rings would seat properly). However, if oil producers were adding ZDDP then, and then were forced to remove it, I think I want that in my oil now (just me). I still think that the most important aspect in breaking in a new valve train is plenty of flow and an oil that clings to pressure points. Make sure that all t's are crossed and i's dotted to make sure that happens. Fill your oil pump with oil before installing it and liberally coat the pressure surfaces with a quality prelube (which most contain zinc supposedly because it clings and coats metal better) and make sure you have oil flow. If you want to use something other than ZDDP additive oil, more power to you.....you may be fine or you may not. Your choice......my choice is VR1.

Smart Guy......I think I agree with Diseazd!!!

[siteunseen]

Smart, Guy.  I agree too. 

[S30Driver]

For fans of Valvoline VR1, it is currently on sale at NAPA for 4.49 per quart, a very good price.

 

All weights, and price is good until the end of April.

(I went with the heavier weight for my trip & summer)