L24 vs L28ET

[Zed Head]

 not before I get the car stripped. I feel like the right time to do lock this down is when the car is totally dismantled, but right now I don't think I know enough about these cars to go down this road.

Just for general discussion, but have you driven a Z car?  Any of them 240 to 280?  Hard to see how you can decide on these things without experiencing the car.  You don't have a reference point.  Both Rossiz and myself bought our cars thinking that we would pull the small L28 engines, and replace them with big powerful small block chevy V8's.  Neither of us did after driving the cars, and Rossi is even going backward in technology to carbs, from EFI.  

 

As for dismantling the car, why?  And how far?  Again, just curious.  If you're going down to bare metal on a stripped body, you might consider welding in some reinforcement while it's clean.  The 240 body is not as stiff as the 280 body, and there are some things that you can do while it's stripped that will be much easier than when it's together.  But you'll still need a concept in mind for what the final product will be.

 

Anyway, good luck.  Hope it doesn't end up as just many boxes of parts.

[siteunseen]

Feel free to highjack the thread now.

"high in the nineties" reminds me of a Sanford and Son episode where Donna, a.k.a The Barracuda brought one of her patients to Fred's house, Osgood Wilcox.  They had some wine and Osgood says "White wine. Nothing like white wine. White wine should be drunk young."  Fred said " Yeah, I was drunk when I was young."

[Matthew Abate]

No, I couldn't find one I could drive so I bit the bullet and bought one without. I plan to get it on the road in a couple of weeks (got some things to finish), so that will be my baseline.

I'm taking it apart to have it painted. Haven't decided if I want to have it media blasted or just use sand paper and wire wheels, but I want to get to the metal to protect it from ever rusting. I hadn't planned to reinforce it, and that might force my hand on the power train.

A minimum of 1 hour a day on the car is my rule. Might take a while, but it will be self motivated eventually.

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Edited May 27, 2015 by Matthew

[Captain Obvious]

"Yeah, I's drunk when I was young."

 

Haha! You sure dredged that one up from obscurity!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwIQTKxiTVk

 

Feel free to highjack the thread now.

 

Since we have permission... 

 

[rossiz]

an hour a day?? i do that and more on my dd!! seriously, these things are an addiction and should be treated with the same care as any other addiction... the hardest part is trying to explain to the family when they ask if it's almost done, that it will never be 'done' - in fact that isn't the point. if i wanted a car that was 'done' i'd buy one off the lot - this is something that's sole purpose is to provide delight (while getting me back and forth to work so i can pay for it) and as such it's an eternal source of "projects" 

 

looking forward to seeing your build - i'm guessing you won't be happy with the strip-to-metal unless it's media blasted. reinforcing the rails is a good idea regardless of the power train. i believe Bad Dog rails are a pretty straightforward weld-in option. these cars are pretty twisty-bendy as is - mine is a 280 (more metal than a 240) and frame is completely rust-free and yet when i put the rear up on jack stands it flexes enough that the doors don't close correctly...

[Matthew Abate]

an hour a day?? i do that and more on my dd!! seriously, these things are an addiction and should be treated with the same care as any other addiction... the hardest part is trying to explain to the family when they ask if it's almost done, that it will never be 'done' - in fact that isn't the point. if i wanted a car that was 'done' i'd buy one off the lot - this is something that's sole purpose is to provide delight (while getting me back and forth to work so i can pay for it) and as such it's an eternal source of "projects" 

 

looking forward to seeing your build - i'm guessing you won't be happy with the strip-to-metal unless it's media blasted. reinforcing the rails is a good idea regardless of the power train. i believe Bad Dog rails are a pretty straightforward weld-in option. these cars are pretty twisty-bendy as is - mine is a 280 (more metal than a 240) and frame is completely rust-free and yet when i put the rear up on jack stands it flexes enough that the doors don't close correctly...

1 hour a day is the minimum. My 14 hour days plus the 2 hour commute don't leave a lot of time for the kids, which take priority over the car, so the car consumes sleep time. Gotta make sure I sleep enough to not get fired.

I think you're right about not being happy unless I get it media blasted. That's the goal right now, but I have to make sure I can't do the equivalent myself before I drop the cash. The absolute first thing I need to do to the body is fix the floors. I have metal riveted to them and bondo underneath. That's the priority right after getting it running (fuel leak and no battery ATM).

Would you recommend replacing the frame rails even if they don't need to be? I knew these were flex, but I had assumed that I could solve that problem with bolt-in parts like sway bars and such. Gotta look into this.

[joeybricks]

Matthew are you doing the body work yourself?

[rossiz]

just kidding on the time commitment - we all gotta fit in our hobbies around our responsibilities 

i believe the Bad Dog rails for the 280 weld in over the top of the existing ones to add stiffness, not sure if the 240 ones are the same, but i reckon it could be done that way which might save a bunch of labor ripping out the old ones and getting the body straight. i don't think the sway bars stiffen up the body, they just reduce body roll in the suspension.

 

there are bolt-on body braces for the strut towers (both front and rear) but i have no direct experience with them and have read quite a bit about their relative effectiveness/ineffectiveness - you'll have to do your own research on that one.

[Matthew Abate]

I won't be welding, but I plan to smooth it out and do the undercoat, which is why I thought I could get away with not media blasting it. Still working that out. I'm getting rust freckles, though, so I need to get on it.

I didn't realize the braces weren't effective. Researching this is way higher priority than figuring out the drivetrain. I was really hoping to not cut or weld at all.

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Edited May 27, 2015 by Matthew

[Patcon]

The frame rails up front run from part way under the floor boards up to the front of the car. They tend to rust from the inside out or around the gusset plates behind the struts. They didn't seal these areas really well so water gets between the layers of metal and rusts it out. The true factory front rails are basically NLA. You might find some but they will be quite pricey. The "Bad Dog" rails deal with the biggest problem which is the reinforcement of the firewall section of the front frame rails. The Bad Dog rails also go to the back of the floor pans and tie to rear frame section. It is a nice product. Look at Careless's thread. He installed those rails on the project he is working on. I don't know how much shock tower braces stiffen the car but they have to help just because they limit movement of the towers.

[Patcon]

If you have rust on the car there is no good way to avoid cutting and welding. I am not talking about the surface rust on the rear quarter, that can be sanded, converted and primed. I use epoxy primer on my projects. It's good stuff, tough and waterproof but you need to be careful with commercial paints. They can be very dangerous!!

[Matthew Abate]

The only rust I've found so far is in the floors. I had planned to do a self etching primer, but I'm also looking into the epoxy. What specifically should I be looking out for that is dangerous? Or are you talking about the application process and respirators and such?

I suggest we move this particular discussion over to my build thread, by the way.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Matthew