Is this 76 280Z worth getting?

[Patcon]

Does it run? If it does, does it start and idle well? No pig rich smells at the exhaust? Check the usual rust areas, dog legs, under the battery, frame rails. The battery would probably be the biggest concern because of the climate. Look for butchered wiring or damaged rubber under the hood. Seems like a nice looking Z.

[hr369]

Does anyone happen to know if there are known issues with the automatics as far as reliability is concerned?  I really wish it was at least a 4 speed, a 3 speed makes highway cruising sometimes harder than it has to be.  Although bigger tires could help with highway RPMs.

 

Anything I should specifically be on the look for?  I'll check for the usual things when getting a used car, but don't know the specifics with this model.

 

Otherwise, I'm very excited!  Been looking at Zs for some time now.

 

I love my automatic in heavy stop n go traffic.  The jatco trans is very reliable. I've had one in mine since i bought the car in 98.  However there is a weak area and thats the

clutches for 2nd gear. You can test it by going about 30 mph and giving it enough gas to downshift. If you hear the engine revs go higher and then you feel a lag,  its the 2nd gear

clutches slipping.  If its good you should feel an immediate seat of the pants snap when it downshifts.   Another area is reverse. Put it into reverse and hit the gas with a small blip.

If you hear or feel anything strange like a popping noise there could be problems with reverse.  If you're concerned about it, pick up a good used zx turbo automatic with

the lock up torque converter.  It has a stouter clutch setup and a little bit lower rpm cruising on the freeway with the lockup.

[Patcon]

I love my automatic in heavy stop n go traffic.  The jatco trans is very reliable. I've had one in mine since i bought the car in 98.  However there is a weak area and thats the

clutches for 2nd gear. You can test it by going about 30 mph and giving it enough gas to downshift. If you hear the engine revs go higher and then you feel a lag,  its the 2nd gear

clutches slipping.  If its good you should feel an immediate seat of the pants snap when it downshifts.   Another area is reverse. Put it into reverse and hit the gas with a small blip.

If you hear or feel anything strange like a popping noise there could be problems with reverse.  If you're concerned about it, pick up a good used zx turbo automatic with

the lock up torque converter.  It has a stouter clutch setup and a little bit lower rpm cruising on the freeway with the lockup.

Is this a plug and play swap?

[jareddbh]

Well I made the 100 mile drive to go see it last night.  Not as clean in person as it looks in the pictures, but still good overall.  The body has a couple of scratches and dents, the paint is ok, but some areas are fading.  The suspension looks to be original or very old.  It definitely works, but a lot of the rubber bits of the suspension are old and cracking.  The rear struts were definitely blown out, but he has the replacements and they look easy enough to replace.  I didn't find any rust on the underside of the car.  The rear end looked to have a little leak.

 

It's missing the hood ornament, and I didn't see any mounting holes.  Looks like it was glued?  Not sure if I need to drill new holes for a new ornament?

 

The interior was in good shape, small tear in the driver's seat and the rest was good.  The dash is apparently a hard cover that was glued onto the original, hence why it looks so good in an AZ car.  He still had the spare, owner's manual, etc.  He knew the original owner since he got the car in 75-76.

 

It drove well, idle seemed good but could possibly be improved with a tune up.  Didn't have any overheating issues even with the AC blowin' cold.  Overall it drove well.  It wasn't very fast, but the transmission seemed smooth.  I did the tests mentioned above, and it seemed ok.

 

He did have new (used) rubber parts for the front and rear bumper.  He also had a box full of spare parts and an entire engine with around 40k miles on it from a 78 that went by way of the packrats.  Funny enough, that engine was mated with a manual trans, but he got rid of the trans a while ago.  Might be nice if I ever want to do a swap!

 

Opinions?

Edited June 27, 2015 by jareddbh

[jareddbh]

Oh, the steering wheel was also some weird soft rubber material.  It was kind of nice, but not the wooden wheels I'm used to seeing.

[rossiz]

looks like there's a little more rust than readily meets the eye - those paint bubbles are just the tip of it. not saying don't get it, just go in w/your eyes open as there may be some questionable bodywork under the paint or they didn't do adequate prep work. i'd be more concerned about the bodywork than the transmission - you can do that swap cheaper than the bodywork and re-paint.

[Hardway]

Kudos for the making the drive out to see it.  If the suspension has never been overhauled its definitely time.  It can be done with hand tools and the front is pretty much a bolt off/bolt on affair.  Getting the original strut cartridges out of the front may be a challenge but that's usually the extent of it.  The rear you already know needs attention and will need the same overhaul work too.  If you have not already, do a search for "spindle pins".  They are the single biggest point of frustration and misery related to classic Z cars.  To re-do the entire rear suspension they have to come out and usually get replaced since getting them out means cutting and pressing them out.  One you have done the suspension, a tune up, and a few other odds and ends you would have a nice classic Z to drive every day and a bonus of one with cold AC.

 

A few things to think about since you are looking to trade.  What is your Impala worth?  $2K, $3K, $4K, more?  Since you are looking for a daily driver a 280z is probably one of the best "classic" daily drivers there is.  However, if you have family would it make sense to get something more modern and have a classic Z, even that 280z as a second car?  I am in no ways trying to talk you out of the 280z, just throwing it out there as something to keep in mind.  Any 30 - 40 year old car, driven every day will need some attention every two to three weeks and have a habit of nickel and diming you to death.  As a second car you could take on the repair projects and spend time doing them right as you will run in to unexpected challenges.  I am sure others have experience with this and will chime in on the topic.

[jareddbh]

Kudos for the making the drive out to see it.  If the suspension has never been overhauled its definitely time.  It can be done with hand tools and the front is pretty much a bolt off/bolt on affair.  Getting the original strut cartridges out of the front may be a challenge but that's usually the extent of it.  The rear you already know needs attention and will need the same overhaul work too.  If you have not already, do a search for "spindle pins".  They are the single biggest point of frustration and misery related to classic Z cars.  To re-do the entire rear suspension they have to come out and usually get replaced since getting them out means cutting and pressing them out.  One you have done the suspension, a tune up, and a few other odds and ends you would have a nice classic Z to drive every day and a bonus of one with cold AC.

 

A few things to think about since you are looking to trade.  What is your Impala worth?  $2K, $3K, $4K, more?  Since you are looking for a daily driver a 280z is probably one of the best "classic" daily drivers there is.  However, if you have family would it make sense to get something more modern and have a classic Z, even that 280z as a second car?  I am in no ways trying to talk you out of the 280z, just throwing it out there as something to keep in mind.  Any 30 - 40 year old car, driven every day will need some attention every two to three weeks and have a habit of nickel and diming you to death.  As a second car you could take on the repair projects and spend time doing them right as you will run in to unexpected challenges.  I am sure others have experience with this and will chime in on the topic.

 

Thanks for the info!  I'll look into the spindle pins.  As for the rear struts, you just unbolt them from the top inside the cabin and pull them out?  Is there anything I'm missing?  Do you even have to jack the car up for this?

 

Well, I posted the Impala for $7.5K and have gotten a lot of bites.  Another guy wants to trade me a modded (cam, exhaust, suspension, brakes, cosmetics, etc) '01 Mustang GT.  There's no question that the Mustang is a better vehicle than the 280 or the Impala, but it doesn't have the same character and will depreciate over my ownership.

 

I currently have 4 vehicles and trying to downsize in every sense of the word.  The Impala takes up nearly the whole garage.  I have a truck (89' Isuzu Spacecab), two commuters (05' Hyundais), and the impala.  Hoping to trade the impala for something, and then sell one of the commuters.  I'm very happy to do maintenance and am pretty good with troubleshooting issues as they come up.  Basically, I have pleanty of backup.

 

One thing to note: The tach worked fine during normal driving and idling, but when I punched it, it actually got stuck around 3k RPM.  Guessing its just a sticky gauge, but curious if this is a bigger issue than I think.

[Hardway]

You are welcome Jared.  Sounds like you have quite a fleet there.  Many others have documented the misery they went through with spindle pin removal and below is a link to my thread on it.  They are not to be under estimated but you may get lucky like a few have and they could slide right out.

 

Spindle Pins -> http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/45649-spindle-pin-woes/

 

On the rear struts you have to remove the entire rear hub assembly from the car, get the gland nut off (not always easy) and get the strut cartridge out (not always easy).  I documented my front and rear suspension rebuilds in the thread for my '72 240z below.  I must warn you, there are a lot of pictures and information but it should give you a good idea what you would be getting in to.  Many other owners have build and repair threads as well and I highly recommend checking them out.

 

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/44963-the-lime-green-machine-restoration-thread-1972-240z/

[jareddbh]

Sorry for my naivete, but what is the spindle pin holding together?  Do I need to remove it to replace the struts?  I looked through your post about the cartridges, that doesn't look like a lot of fun, but doable.

 

I plan on doing the rear supsension at some point, but for the immediate future, it's going to be just the struts.  The front suspension should be fairly easy as you've mentioned.

[Hardway]

The spindle pin is the hinge/pivot point of the lower control arm and strut & hub assembly.  It is where the two components pivot as the suspension goes up and down.  You do not have to remove the spindle pins to change out the strut cartridges. But if you end up having to remove the whole assembly to get the strut cartridge out due to a stuck cartridge, you may want to think about doing the bushings and spindle pins since you are pretty much there.  It is not uncommon for the strut cartridge to become stuck in their tube.  This can be due to rust, fluid that has leaked out of the cartridge and turned to gel, or something else.  I had to invest in a slide hammer to get one of my front cartridges out and subsequently used it to get one of the rears out as well.

[hr369]

Is this a plug and play swap?

no, the driveshaft on the turbo is larger diameter so you would have to cut down a turbo zx driveshaft. BUT.. for your efforts you get a higher stall torque

converter with lower first gear and stouter clutches.  I was looking into this option on mine a couple years ago after my reverse started making popping noises.

Datzenmike over on ratsun is the expert on jatco's. He's the person to ask if you're interested in using this trans. The L3N71B was only used on 82-83 280zx's

so it may be more difficult to source.

Edited June 28, 2015 by hr369