To Dream the Impossible Dream (Redwing's Z cars)

[FastWoman]

If Jonathan's method works (and he's used it, so he should know), go for it! 

[jonathanrussell]

Jai,

I would say my method has worked for me but I had never really thought about Sarah's until I just looked up your other thread and read her method. The downside to my method is you saturate your air filter (it will dry, fyi) and you will probably use more starter fluid with my method.

 

Sarah's method is just as easy...maybe easier because you don't need to remove the air filter cover bolts which can be a pain in your car. You just remove one of the small rubber hoses that connect into the top of your intake manifold (the big cast aluminum thing on the top driver's side of your engine) and spray in. As she mentioned...you need a straw to direct the spray into a small hole.

 

You could choose the rubber hose that connects your intake manifold to the carbon canister (see fsm). You could use the hose that connects to the brake booster. Lots of options.

[EuroDat]

I have used both methods and both worked. The manifold test work in one case. I had a lot of water in the fuel and it wouldn't do anything. The other case was a bad ignition module that would stop working when it got hot. I was on the side of the road and the air cleaner was the quickest access.

I did take the air filter out and spray down towards the afm while starting the engine.

For the manifold method I used the brake booster port. It will mostly run on the back three cylinders with this method (because the brake booster port is at the back of the manifold), but it proves the ingnition is working or not. You are not ment to run the engine on this stuff. Its just to identify what is not working: fuel or spark.

[siteunseen]

 I would think it should go after the throttle plate, on the manifold side.  The hose from the cannister like Jonathan mentioned would be my choice.

 

[Redwing]

Ok siteunseen, I see your mark on the photo. One question for the hose when pulled. Is the hose removed from the manifold end or the other end? Ummm, what I am really trying to ask is once the hose is pulled, does the starter fluid go directly into the manifold, or from the other end of the hose? Squirting into the hose end, for it to travel the length of the hose to the manifold? Using a straw natch.

Thank you,

Jai

[jonathanrussell]

I have in my hand the same Polar starting fluid can that you have. I see no provision for attaching a straw to it. I don't think it will matter though. Here is what I would do.....

 

Remove the hose Site circled above at the manifold. This hose is held in place with a small spring type hose clamp. All you need to do is use needle nose pliers or similar to squeeze the two protruding "arms" on the clamp together and then, while continuing to squeeze the arms slide the clamp up the hose away from the manifold. After that, turn the hose at the manifold a few times to free it up and pull off. Once the hose is off, I think you will be able to situate the spray nozzle very close to the fitting opening where the hose was and direct the spray from the can into the manifold. Spray for 3-4 seconds. You can loosely place the hose back on the fitting...doesn't need to be re-clamped yet. Try to start. If not, spray a bit more. If nothing, then you will know your problem....at least in terms of starting....is likely something other than fuel. I say "likely" because you could have a coincidental fuel problem and ignition problem...however unlikely. If it starts, you know you have some sort of fuel problem. Remember, it won't run. You just want to know whether the starting fluid gets the car to start...even for a second or two.

[Redwing]

Johnathan

She will start now, but will quit whenever she decides, 1 block, 1 mile...+ --. No reliability at all. So this is done after she quits, right? Best to do is start her and let run until she decides to quit, right? Then rush in and do this test, right?

My needle nosed pliers will be arriving in the next few days, and when the are here I will do the test as you described to me.

I will let you and all know the outcome! Thank you...

[jonathanrussell]

I was sort of under the impression that the car now would no longer start. My mistake. Still, doing what you just described is, to me, the right step to take. I would say...when it stops again 1) confirm that it won't start and then 2) do the starter fluid test. Don't burn yourself working on the hot engine.

 

BTW, it can be any pliars that work...I just typically use needle nose for that particular clamp.

 

And...if you get nervous about removing the vacuum line....go back to the method where you open the air cleaner and spray into it while someone starts the car...pressing the accelerator pedal some while starting. And, someone else mentioned removing the air filter and just spraying without the filter in place (that way you don't saturate your filter).

[Redwing]

Thanks.

I am going from ground zero, I have no tools except a hammer. They should be here today or tomorrow.

[jonathanrussell]

Apologies if I am asking you to repeat what you have already written but how well does your car start up, warm up, and drive until it dies?

[Redwing]

It varies I think by the air temperature. Usually in the morning she will start fine. But later in the day, she seems to want to gasp and not be willing to start or restart. Sometimes will. A week or so ago, I had driven a few miles when she just shuts off. Coast to a stop, and try to start. Wait 15-30 minutes and she (used to) start again. Last time I took her to town, a big 5 miles away, she did that 3 times before I got to the store. Then only once on way back home. The next time I tried to take her out, she grumbled and did not really want to move, but I won out and she went 1/4 mile. Would not restart then, nor hours later when I tried again just before being towed home. Then a repeat of that, but only maybe 1/8 mile out. The last time I tried to leave with her, in the cooler air of morning, she did not get out of my long drive before she stopped and refused to start again. Nor later. We pushed her back into the carport. I forget why, but I have successfully started her for just a few minutes recently. With no sign of chugging/ gasping then.

So it has progressively gotten worse to the point I just know if she manages to go a couple of miles, she will do this again and need a tow truck now. So I have not even tried.

If this description is not enough, just ask more what you want.

Thank you for your interest and help!

[FastWoman]

Jai, I think we've run into a somewhat expensive problem already:  To work on your car, you will need tools -- much more than a hammer, an electrician's tool, and a pair of needle-nose pliers.  The most economical way to buy tools is in kit form.  Sears (now owned by Kmart) sells Craftsman, which is still a good make and is lifetime warranted.  Apparently you can buy them from either Sears or Kmart.  Lowes carries its own Kobalt line, which is also lifetime warranted.  I have some of their tools, and they are decent too.  I bought my son a Kobalt kit to get him started.  Realizing you are on a budget, I checked Harbor Freight, but the kits there don't seem any less expensive than what you'd find elsewhere, and they frankly aren't as good.  I would say you need the following basic tools:

 

3/8" socket set, extension, and ratchet handle -- metric

1/4" socket set, extension, and ratchet handle -- metric

maybe a set of 3/8" deep sockets

crescent wrench set

fixed wrench set

small variety of pliers -- needle nose, standard, channel-lock, perhaps vice grip

screwdrivers

 

I would expect to pay in the neighborhood of $100 or more for a basic tool kit that would have these items -- or maybe some kit that you would supplement with a few extra items.  Sometimes these kits go on sale.  Perhaps you could buy someone's tools used (maybe an estate sale?).  But I don't see how you're going to do much work on your car without basic hand tools.

 

EDIT: Perhaps you can borrow your son's tools?  Does he have a set of basic mechanics' hand tools?

Edited July 10, 2015 by FastWoman