To Dream the Impossible Dream (Redwing's Z cars)

[jonathanrussell]

Jai,

I think I read that you said you have vice grips. If you are careful to not crush and damage the hose you could use vice grips on one side and the hemostats on the other. Hemostats are a good idea that I need to remember. I use them to hold wires when I solder.

 

Site, the "wood clamps" I was thinking of are the small plastic quick / squeeze clamps. Here is a link to a $5 option.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Tools-59400CD-Quick-Grip-Handi-Clamp/dp/B00005RHP0/ref=pd_sim_469_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=1G5V56FJVTXBS4NSEJNT

 

 

[siteunseen]

Actually you only need to stop the flow from the tank, so just one clamp.  Read through this;  http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/fuel/g3filter/index.htm

 

I'm sorry Jonathan, you're way is safer.  I was typing while you posted.

 

If you have a paint stir stick break off two pieces and put that in the jaws of your vise grips so it won't cut into the hose.  If you could get a pieces of rubber hose over the jaws that would work too.

Edited July 11, 2015 by siteunseen

[Redwing]

The run engine till it stops test is done. Starter fluid into (canister line) into manifold, the car Will NOT start afterward.

The car ran for at least 1/2 hour before stopping.

The fuel pump at that time was NOT hot at all.

The AC compressor, which is not working, is still hooked up to the belt. No hose hooked up to the compressor.

Next is the yogurt cup test. Let you know.

[jonathanrussell]

Excellent Jai. So you are starting to learn some things that will help narrow down. I assume your battery wasn't dead when it died, right?

 

Also Jai, just to be sure...you sprayed plenty of fluid into the hole, right?

 

All participating...

If the car is starting up and running well enough to run for 30 minutes, then does anyone really think that she has a serious enough vacuum leak to cause the sudden stall? In other words, the yogurt test...while a good test...may not be necessary given what we know. Can we assume that the fuel pump wasn't the problem or fuel pressure or fuel injectors because the car wouldn't start after starter fluid, right? Shouldn't be a heat soak problem- again the starter fluid would have caused a reaction and her symptom doesn't follow the normal 280z heat soak progression. Possibilities IMHO...starting from the simplest to more complicated...

 

Battery, alternator, regulator- not the problem if Jai confirms that the battery wasn't dead when it stalled.

Cap, Rotor, wires....unlikely but worth a swap and she has them on hand.

Coil.

Ignition module.

 

After that, it gets more complicated and requires some real diagnosis.

 

Jai, these are just my thoughts. I am very interested in helping. Wait though for others who are far better at this than me to weigh in on what to do next.

[Redwing]

Thank you Johnathan for your input.

Battery was not dead. Started right up, before letting to run till dying. But seemed to not be running well. Didn't sound smooth, maybe missing? Ran for about 30 minutes + -- before dying. Tested for after engine dies with starter fluid, using the little hose pulled off the carbon canister, the other end. Starter fluid directly into manifold. Repeated the starter into the manifold twice, just to make sure. She totally refused to start both times. Nothing.

At this point in time, Chip checked the full pump, and it was not even warm, no heat in it.

The test I have listed in my notes as vent system. Dunno if that is my name for it or not. Take off fuel line from charcoal canister, then try using breath, to see if air goes through it. Answer is no. Not for either way. Air line apparently plugged.

Could not install the little clear fuel filter. The hose was just as long as the filter, no room. BTW, that hose as well as the other one running from fuel filter are the same red, non normal hoses. Perhaps more garden hoses. The one for the little filter was to be 3/8 inch but it was far larger diameter. Some one sure did a Mickey Mouse on her, several hoses and more too.

Could not complete yogurt test. Another time.

Could on change oil. The nut on the oil pan was so tight Chip could not loosen it. He was afraid if he put a come along on it, that it would snap off. In checking the oil, it had gone way down to the lower end of dipstick. Curious, as it does not seem to be leaking on the new rocks in her carport, and I just checked it not long ago. Anyhow did not want to use the Devo oil and mix it with whatever is in there, I just added the Q. State 10W30 I had. And knowing it would be dumped as soon as the plug is loosened.

Oh, there is a large hose coming through the firewall that goes to a canister. From there it goes (having been spliced) to the front of the car where it is not connected to anything. We are thinking that it at one time was connected to the AC compressor. Found in the manual, but for AC they do not number the things pointed out, so we could not figure the canister name out.

But it was blazing Hot!

In the manual, it looks like that the hose was split with others coming off it. But all that is there is, a single spliced hose that is dangling near the compressor. And the belt is still connected to the compressor too. We were discussing why both of these things were awry. Makes no sense. Seems like they would have just removed the hose, and unconnected the compressor from the belt. Why leave it connected so the non working compressor is turned all the time. But we left them as is, so when the guys get here to look at her, she will still be exactly as she was when dying on me.

That is the extent of what we did today. It got too hot to be out working in the heat. But she did perk up and started running when we were finished, no problem!

Please, if you can diagnose anything from what was tested, let me know. When she was running, it was music to my ears!!! I want go for a ride!

[Redwing]

Whoops...! I did not see Site's message before going to do the testing, and missed the URL he suggested. Aghhh, I looked at the hoses coming in/out of the fuel pump itself. Those, even though red and wrong, were not the hoses I should have looked at. Did not take off RR wheel. So that will have to be done later. No wonder the hose I looked at was wrong. Glad did not try to put filter there, it felt wrong, and it was. Hahaha

[FastWoman]

Jai, I agree with Jonathan.  Vaccuum leaks are not your most significant issue -- not the reason your engine is dying randomly.  I have previously expressed a need to look for little issues such as vacuum leaks, because they do need correcting.  BUT a vacuum leak is not going to suddenly kill your engine when it's been running fine for a half hour.  It's important to understand that your engine likely has several issues, some big and some small.

 

Right now, I strongly suspect the reason your engine dies is some sort of fuel starvation problem.  It could be rust clogging up the system.  It could be a failing fuel pump.  But I bet it's one of the two.  (My money is on the fuel pump.)

 

Just to offer a competing theory, bad electrical connections can also kill your engine suddenly, either resulting in loss of fuel delivery or gross overdelivery.  And then there is also the possibility of an ignition problem -- not the cap, rotor, wires, plugs, but rather the ignition module or an electrical connection.

 

Once you get the engine running (without dying), then is time to set in on the smaller stuff -- electrical connections, vacuum leaks, etc.  All of these create errors in fuel/air mixture, and all the errors add up.  The improvements you see will be incremental, and reliability will get much better.

 

IMO you should also replace your red garden hoses -- sooner, rather than later.  The oversized "fuel" hose makes me very nervous.

[siteunseen]

If she has red hoses in/out of the pump I'd bet it's not the OE Bosch.  Jai, when you remove the right rear tire for placement of the clear filter take a picture of the pump, it may be a cheapo off e-bait and switch. 

 

Why in the world would someone put that red heater hose, I'm guessing, all the way back at the pump?  I've only seen red hose on inboard boat motors.  That would be inline with a car coming from Miami, some boat mechanic may have done that.  

 

I've had old coils overheat from lack of oil, you can shake one and hear if it's not full.

[Patcon]

Jai

Do you have a way to cool the ignition module. Compressed air in a can like you would use to blow computers clean? An air compressor and a blow gun? Possible a freezy pack wrapped in a towel? If the car won't start on Ether (starting fluid) I would suspect a bad ignition module. You could run the car till it stalls then cool the module and see if it will start. This is a fairly common problem on modules that are going bad.

[Redwing]

Fastwoman,

Thank you for your insightful thoughts.

What about the line that is blocked both directions on the charcoal canister? Will that problem only manifest in the fuel tank whoosh? Any other problems from that line to manifest?

As to the main fuel red garden hose, do I know enough (me and my manual), to do this replacement?

Or is this something that I need to wait for the gentlemen coming to look at her, to do it? Maybe they need to see RB in this condition, unchanged, hose not replaced?

Your not knowing which is RB's biggest problem, will that be figured out by the gentlemen? Do you have any idea about what it will take for me to be able to drive again? Hmmm, that sounds like a question with no answer.

Actually I bought RB 12/1/14. It took her 3 months to get to me, March '15. I was able to drive her, unconcerned and very happy for 2 months until she started to be unreliable. Since the first of June, she has been difficult, with me, by me not driving any more shortly after. I am exceedingly sad that my beautiful girl just sits. You can understand how I am depressed at not being able to drive her. It has been a long time with not much driving. Deep sigh.

Thanks for all, to all of you. I am so in debt to you.

Jai

[Redwing]

Yes I can get a freeze pack and try that. More info from doing more testing. Yay.

Maybe take a short drive with the freeze pack in an ice chest.

[Redwing]

Remember, right after her dying, Chip felt the coil and there was hardly any warmth in it.

The coil is filled with the motor oil?