Packaging and support from MSA

[Mike]

Hi guys,

 

I wanted to give you an update on my call with MSA.  I spent a few hours on the phone last night discussing the issue of product packaging and here's what I found.  

 

My biggest outtake is that MSA will support their customers, period.  We spent most of our time going through this thread and discussing their shipping practices.  From what I have found, their preferred carrier is FedEx because they have been the most reliable over the years.  Other carriers like UPS and USPS have let them down and don't prefer to use them at this time.  FedEx has an excellent reputation, however, they do have a few bad seeds out there and issues may occur.  Many of these bad situations are resolved with FedEx, however, MSA tells me that most bad shipments end up costing them money because FedEx won't reimburse for the damage easily.  It might be easier and less hassle just to eat the cost and ship a new product.  (this is my summation)

 

Anyway, if a bad shipping situation does happen, which isn't that often compared to the thousands of shipments they do in a month, MSA typically organizes a return and ships out another product to the customer.  I can say that returning a product due to a bad shipment ends up as an extremely discounted garage-sale item.  The garage sale items are almost always less than what they pay for it.  So, if you mix this with the fact they don't get paid from FedEx for the damage, this is a loss.

 

As far as the packaging and boxes, MSA assured me they use proper sizing and adequate packing material to protect your products.  Nothing is ever sent out of their office in a damaged condition.  For instance, they won't ever send a box out the door with a bumper end sticking out of the box.  If you see this happen when the product arrives, it's a direct result of FedEx (or someone else in the middle) treating the package without care.

 

I did ask about double boxing some of the awkward items and the conclusion was that some items needed it, and some items do not.  Double-boxing all products would end up raising the price (sometimes doubling) of the shipping charges.  Because this question came up, they offered to send me a few pictures of their packing process just to let you see how things are done "behind the scenes."  I'll post those pictures as soon as I get them.

 

As far as support, MSA will respond to every inquiry.  The only reason they would not respond is simply because the inquiry was never received.  In this case, they advised me to call on the phone if a shipping issue comes up.  The best thing about a phone call is that you can talk with a real person and work out a deal.  Email follow-ups can be arranged to exchange photos or information.  They will accept email reports from the start, but, please make sure to use the correct address when you need help.  I'll post a link at the bottom of this post with a link to their site.

 

I also wanted to let you know that MSA is also working on putting more public representation in the forums and online.  I feel they have a good plan for this and will be seen around the online community as they push forward.

 

I did talk to them about a few of your concerns directly and I'll be sending PM's to you guys shortly.  Feel free to contact me about any other concerns you might have, but, it still looks like MSA is one of your best sources for Z parts and they will stand behind their products.

 

Here's the link to all contact information for MSA:

 

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/Help

 

Cheers!

 

Mike

[Zed Head]

Mike, I went back through the thread, including my first link and it does look I came out of nowhere with the issue.  But I found one of the threads about MSA packaging issues that had been in the back of my mind.  And, for MSA's benefit, e-mail traffic needs to be monitored daily.  Many of these older shops think that checking their e-mails every one or two weeks is enough, but it's not.  It's just the way communication is done these days.  E-mail is daily.

 

Here's that thread, just for the record - http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/50814-msa-header-quality-is-this-the-norm/  Could be that the packaging problem has been addressed.  If people want to chime in with excellent shipping and packaging stories, that would be great.

 

Thanks for following up with them. 

[Mike]

And, for MSA's benefit, e-mail traffic needs to be monitored daily.  Many of these older shops think that checking their e-mails every one or two weeks is enough, but it's not.  It's just the way communication is done these days.  E-mail is daily.

Thanks for following up with them. 

 

Hi Zed, I didn't get the impression they only check emails a few times a week.  After visiting the office last year, it looks to me like email is how business gets done on a day-to-day basis, even with their internal staff.

 

You're welcome.

[Joseph@TheZStore]

Our thanks to all regarding the questions and feedback about our shipments and forum contact. First for the shipments. We use only new boxes, and only boxes that are strong enough to have passed burst testing by FedEx. All Headers are bubble wrapped (since the header shown in the forum with the box top ripped open during shipping was a coated 6-1 header, we used the same in our example, which has an additional light wrap from the coating company over the center (on non-coated headers, the center area of the header is more visible)). In the second image you can see the header in the box, and in the third image you can see the header package completed and waiting for FedEx pick up.
 

Once FedEx (or any shipper) picks your package up, at that moment it legally belongs to FedEx. If your package arrives damaged, we can't start a claim for you with FedEx; that has to come from you. This is why we have always noted in our catalogs and on our website that you must keep your packaging and inspect the contents of your packages for damage. Many of you have seen the videos shown on news programs and posted online where certain delivery drivers have blatantly mistreated packages. While shipping companies have taken steps to limit this, it still does happen sometimes. The type of impact necessary to rip the top off of a box is pretty severe, and fortunately very rare: Since June of 2014 we've sold 246 "6-1" style headers, and had 0 returns.
 

We lose money on almost all damaged packages since only you can claim shipping damage, and once you've received the package, thrown away the box and packing, and not contacted the shipper right away, a claim can no longer be filed. As has always been the case Motorsport absorbs the loss and takes care of our customers anyway. Somebody suggested that we don't mind, since we then sell the damaged parts in a scratch and dent sale. This is true, but it is solely cutting our losses. On almost any order with shipping damage, we'll end up losing money on the deal regardless. No business can succeed by losing money, and we're no different.
 

Shipping damage doesn't occur very often, and Motorsport takes all reasonable steps to get as close to 100% non-damage as possible, without taking severe measures like suspending one box inside of another, which would increase the shipping charges drastically. In addition, with the type of impact necessary to do what has been shown online (the ripped open box), even a double box likely wouldn't have solved the problem, and with the number of problems being well below 1% of products shipped, we feel comfortable with the level of protection VS reasonable shipping and packaging fees.
 

As far as forum presence and customer service, while we hope to soon have full time staff available to participate in this and other forums, for now we request that any questions or issues be sent to us directly. This can be done from 8-5 Monday through Friday or 9-1 Saturday through our toll free line (800)633-6331. You can also always send us an email to the general email box at info@motorsportauto.com. For even faster contact, simply note your sales technician's email address (or phone extension) from our help/contact page, and inquire directly of them. If you've ever left a message for your technician and didn't receive a response, first our apologies, and know that we recently (hopefully) solved an issue with our phone system where some messages were being routed to un-monitored extensions. If you've sent an email and not received a response, our apologies for that also, but know that even though we receive and respond to hundreds of emails every day, as far as we know we don't miss any. It can unfortunately happen at times, and sometimes in the electronic world we live in email communications don't even make it through. In any of these situations, please re-try contacting us, so we can take care of you. We consider every customer and every part important in this wonderful Z Enthusiast hobby we share.

 

Thank you for your patience in this matter.

 

Greg & Your Motorsport Team.

 

 

[EuroDat]

I have been following this thread for a while. 18 months back I did purchase a fibreglass air-dam.

I had concerns about shipping such an item to europe and they ensured me the shipping company (fedex) was capable of dilivering it without damage.

The box arrived without a mark on it and the air-dam was in one piece. Admittedly its the only large item Ive ordered, but I would use them again.

[Patcon]

I have found carriers are much more careful with packages that are insured. If you ship something and want it taken care of, insure it...

[siteunseen]

Mine must have missed out on your packing process and was reshipped to me in the same box from Embee, the coating company, with the "light wrap".

 

I remember the salesperson saying they were out of stock at the moment and would ship as soon as they came in, literally speaking now that I see how well yours are bubble wrapped in those pictures.

 

[siteunseen]

I feel I should update this after talking with Joseph at MSA.

 

I was a little skeptical at first, after all he's their marketing guy and I thought he was just going to try and polish up a turd.  But I was wrong.  He's more like the Returns Department at Walmart, the customer is always right and will do whatever to make them happy.  They're a big business that moves a lot of products, not a mom and pop store.  They make mistakes just like me only they have 100s of chances a day where I have just a few.  

 

I can only speak for myself but I honestly believe he's being (stealing words from ZedHead) PROACTIVE instead of reactive because of the events mentioned in this thread.

 

So thanks to Mike and Joseph for making things better for the customers.  I will buy from them again with a 100% confidence things will be right.

 

Cliff, whose coffee and a.m medication has been rambling but is serious.   

[Zed Head]

Curious - what WAS the deal with your package?  Was it a rush job that got sent direct from Embee, or just the way things used to be sent?  

 

 

In general, people tend to reduce effort slowly over time until someone tells them there's a problem.  It's just human nature.  Slippage happens.  Glad that MSA is re-engaged.

[siteunseen]

They were doing a free shipping promo when I bought the exhaust system in February.  It shipped out a few weeks later when their stock was replenished.  It very well could have been marked a RUSH ORDER by the salesman, I don't know.  So they sent it out as is, but that won't happen again I'd bet my car on it.  Joseph has their ear, they pay him to get them more new and return customers.

[gogriz91]

Ordered the 6 into 1 header and an exhaust system, all bubble wrapped, one 2 in gash in one of the boxes, stuff was intact, never had a problem with MSA.

[HuD 91gt]

I'll follow up as well.  I was in contact with Jeff, and despite my strange issues they wanted to make it right.   On my next order, I ordered a master gasket set.  It arrived, with a few other smaller items.  The box had been bent in half somehow during shipping (Long narrow box) and put a crease right through the head gasket. I immediately sent it back.  I tried calling all week and getting in contact with Jeff.  I thought I was going down the same path again with no customer service.

I was finally able to get a hold of Jeff once again, and apparently their phone system is archaic and leads you to voicemail box's which aren't even existent anymore.  My emails were going to their spam folder from what i could tell.  Once I was able to get a hold of someone, I was reassured the shipment would be corrected.  Within a few days my emails were answered and a new shipment was sent to me.  It arrived undamaged.

 

Overall, I am still sceptical on their shipping/packaging process (No packaging and items just tossed in a box on my damaged shipment).  If you are actually able to get in contact with someone, you should be taken care of.    I think there is work to be done on there phone/email infrastructure.  With an online business, it's kind of important.

 

I will continue to order from them as they have great products, but be weary if there are issues it may be a hassle to get a hold of someone who can correct your situation.