Redwing's Car - An Update

[Mark Maras]

rcb280Z

 I've been wondering about the frequency of the smoke too. I don't have an answer yet. But as far as the "smoke" lingering, if the car was under an open canopy, there must have been no breeze & if the relative humidity was high & if there was a lot of condensation in the exhaust (a lot of ifs) a cloud of "smoke" could & would hang around. I've seen this happen when the conditions are just right.

 

 Jai

 On the Tues. morning of the "smoke" , you started the car. How long did it idle before driving it? You saw a cloud of smoke, drove the car 1/2 mile & turned it off. Did it run OK, & was it still smoking when you got back from the mailbox? I'm beginning to wonder if the smoke & the engine crapping out are unrelated. The smoke being condensation & the engine being water in the gas. A bit of a stretch but possible if the engine ran OK when smoking.

[SteveJ]

Jai,

 

Fuel tank products that contain iso-propyl alcohol are the best for making water in the fuel tank miscible with the fuel. The cheap products contain methanol and ethanol. I advise staying away from those since they can harm the rubber components in the fuel system.

Fuel injector cleaner contains mineral spirits and possibly fuel system detergents. They help dissolve organic based compounds that can clog the fuel system. (Think varnish.)

Stabil (and other fuel stabilizers) helps prevent the degradation of sitting fuel that happens as lighter volatile organic compounds (VOCs) evaporate from the fuel.

 

While your car is under a carport, it is subjected to the effects of cooling. This can include condensation of water vapor in the intake and exhaust. It might take a few minutes to heat up the car to burn off all of the condensation. The whoosh you heard when you opened the gas cap indicates to me that you are less likely to have condensation in the fuel tank. That's a good thing.

[Redwing]

quote name="rcb280z" post="480330" timestamp="1446480565"]That's why I asked about water in the tank earlier. But Jai did say that the "smoke" lingered for awhile. Another question, if its oil burning why doesn't it happen all the time? 

 

Jai, at what level do you keep your fuel tank, or should I ask, how empty do you let it get and for how long?

RedBird has mostly been off the road for several months now. When Steve and Tony emptied the tank, there was 5 gallons old gas in it. When I filled it up with 8 gallons of 100%, that was last Saturday, a week ago.

rcb280z

The open canopy is backed up to my house with just room for me to walk thru. I back RB in, so her gas tank is near the house. So that prevents much breeze flowing thru. As to starting the car, she started normal, and I left her running while I did other things. She idled for 5 - 10 minutes with no white smoke. Then I was starting to go to mailbox when she decided to make the white smoke, ran really rough, but we made it. I don't remember any white smoke as I was backing her in. Then later that day, she went to town and back with no incident. No more white smoke then either.

Please keep the questions coming,

Thank you,

Jai

[Redwing]

Jai,

Fuel tank products that contain iso-propyl alcohol are the best for making water in the fuel tank miscible with the fuel. The cheap products contain methanol and ethanol. I advise staying away from those since they can harm the rubber components in the fuel system.

Fuel injector cleaner contains mineral spirits and possibly fuel system detergents. They help dissolve organic based compounds that can clog the fuel system. (Think varnish.)

Stabil (and other fuel stabilizers) helps prevent the degradation of sitting fuel that happens as lighter volatile organic compounds (VOCs) evaporate from the fuel.

While your car is under a carport, it is subjected to the effects of cooling. This can include condensation of water vapor in the intake and exhaust. It might take a few minutes to heat up the car to burn off all of the condensation. The whoosh you heard when you opened the gas cap indicates to me that you are less likely to have condensation in the fuel tank. That's a good thing.

Thank you Steve for explaining the products and the clarification of the water possibilities.. I guess as the saying goes "you get what you pay for". I too thought hearing the gas cap whoosh was a good thing. Hmmm, thinking aloud. Remember that someone suggested to leave the gas cap ajar slightly, earlier when all this started, along with the thinking she might be having vapor lock problems? Could this have allowed water vapor to enter the tank? It stayed in that position for a long time waiting on the vapor lock prognosis.

Thank you,

Jai

PS I might have caused the stall and not restarting last Wednesday night (tow night) inadvertently. I did not take the time to let her idle, I was in a dark area and wanted to get out of there ASAP. Could that have caused it???

Edited November 2, 2015 by Redwing

[siteunseen]

Could it be running good now and getting up to temp, maybe burning off some built up oil somewhere?  We call it a "redneck tune-up", put some high octane in the tank and run the $^!# out of it. 

[Redwing]

Site,

That's a new one to me, never heard that before. As they say ... "if the Foo shits"

ahem...

"If the shoe fits...!"

Maybe!!! Altho the 100% tank said 87 for octaine.

Jai

Edited November 2, 2015 by Redwing

[Mark Maras]

Jai

 As I understand it, the car now starts & runs OK. If it were me, I would start her up, let her warm & start making trips to the mailbox & back keeping the RPMs up around 3000rpm. If it does start to crap out, push in the clutch & give it full throttle. I've had a moderate amount of success forcing small amounts of water to pass through the engine and managed to keep the engine running til it passed. You'll know if & when it has passed. The engine will start running normal again. If it doesn't crap out, you'll gain some confidence in her ability to be reliable. BTW the gas drier is still a good idea.

[Redwing]

Finally getting the spark plugs and the swipe of the exhaust pipe photos uploaded. I was not able to lighten the photos, there is a confusion between my cell phone and my tablet.

They are both pretty sooty. The spark plugs were put in RedBird on August 15. But because of the problems with her, I doubt I have driven her more than 50 - 75 miles max.

Jai

20151031_184544.jpg20151031_185334.jpg

Hi,

I just checked in the FSM about my spark plugs being laden with carbon.

There were 2 choices:

1.) Clean them with a sand blaster.

2.) Replace them.

What fouls spark plugs with carbon?

In FSM fouled plugs cause:

1.) Engine missing.

2.) Engine not delivering enough power.

Both of these problems I have experienced in RB.

No sand blaster here, so that is out of the question. Looks like my only choice is to replace them.

I have a question. The AFM was replaced 10 days ago. Will that remove the probability of fouling the new spark plugs? Or, should I just go ahead and replace them, and check them in a week or so to see if they are getting fouled?

Thank you,

Jai 😇 🚘

[Redwing]

Jai

 As I understand it, the car now starts & runs OK. If it were me, I would start her up, let her warm & start making trips to the mailbox & back keeping the RPMs up around 3000rpm. If it does start to crap out, push in the clutch & give it full throttle. I've had a moderate amount of success forcing small amounts of water to pass through the engine and managed to keep the engine running til it passed. You'll know if & when it has passed. The engine will start running normal again. If it doesn't crap out, you'll gain some confidence in her ability to be reliable. BTW the gas drier is still a good idea.

Mark,

Thank you for your suggestion, I will do that. Altho, as to keeping the RPM's up around 3000, I can't do that as my tach does not work. I will have to just wing it. Great for the building of confidence. I do not plan on leaving home tho until I have my tow available once more. Just in case.

Jai

[gundee]

Have you checked the level of the radiator yet?

When it is cold of course.

If its low, Houston we have a problem.

[Zed Head]

Home again, towed home again, riggedy jig jig.

Heading out for Church. Started fine, by the time I reached the highway (1mile) starting to run real rough. Drove on, getting worse, not gaining speed with gas pedal pushed hard. Would not go over 30 mph. Then stayed alive but losing speed with no gas pedal help. Just kept losing speed, until when almost no movement, then engine died (1 1/2 miles). Would not restart. Called tow truck. Sigh...

Jai

This is from way back in the thread.  It seems like the original problem is still there.  I would venture that there three things that might cause the rough-running then dying.

 

Bad ignition module - usually happens when the module gets warm, either after extended driving or after hitting high RPM.  I had one that would always go bad after going above 3000 RPM.  On mine, the tachometer needle would start jumping around and reading incorrectly, along with the rough running.

 

Bad ECU - broken solder joints and/or bad transistors can happen.  I've read several accounts of bad solder joints causing extra-rich (over-fueling) poor running.  I also had an ECU that ran fine then just coughed once and died.  Then it restarted a few times while tried to make it home.  

 

Bad fuel pump - the fuel pumps can overheat internally and lose power.  Fast Woman has written about her pump in her 78 car that would start the engine and allow driving then slowly lose power and die.  Let it cool down and it would do it again.  I had a pump on my injector tester that would run fine for about 20 minutes then slowly lose power and pressure.

 

1.  The fuel pump issue is easy to see IF you have a gauge mounted where it can be seen when the engine won't restart, or while driving.

 

2.  The ignition modules can be tested with "freeze" spray. (actually this might be tough for Jai since it's up under the dash on the passenger side). Or by checking for spark when the engine won't start.  Carry a spare plug, pull a wire, and check for spark.  Difficult without a helper.  Practice checking for spark when it's in good shape so you know what you're looking for.

 

3.  The ECU is a tough one because it appears to be either too many injections or too long injections.  Easiest is if you have a spare to swap in.  Swap and hope.

 

Just some thoughts,  I didn't see any of these addressed WHILE the problem was happening.  Sporadic problems are the worst, you have to be ready to jump out and start testing right away.

 

At least you now have an engine that you know will run well.  Considering the work that was done that improved everything, the filter changes and connection cleaning,  I wouldn't be surprised if it was the fuel pump.  The pump motor is exposed to the fuel, so old wet fuel can corrode motor parts also.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Zed Head

[Redwing]

Mark,

Thank you for your suggestion, I will do that. Altho, as to keeping the RPM's up around 3000, I can't do that as my tach does not work. I will have to just wing it. Great for the building of confidence. I do not plan on leaving home tho until I have my tow available once more. Just in case.

Jai

Mark,

FYI

Just started her in prep of going to mailbox. Ok, she hummed. Before I could get out of the carport tho, she dropped RPM'S & was missing a bit. Even tho she was not warmed up, I got in and treated her with your heavy gas remedy. After not real long about 30 sec., she stopped acting up and returned to a normal idle. Let her continue to warm up, took off for the mailbox, had an uneventful trip.

First gold star for RB. Yay!

Thank you for that,

Jai