Redwing's Car - An Update

[Zed Head]

The P.A.P. is interesting.  The thick ink is typical of the salvage yards paint pen.  I wouldn't be surprised if the car has had the dying problem for years, causing it to get moved on to owner after owner.  The problem is almost like a module problem but not quite, as EuroDat says.  Easy to get misdirected.

 

Based on the whole story and all of the work that was done to get it tuned right, and the fact that it does run well when it runs, but it still dies randomly, if it was my car and I had a spare ECU to try that's what I'd do next.  The problem-solving path followed isn't exactly the factory path but that is Nissan's last resort - replace ECU.

 

Next time it dies, if your left leg is flexible enough, kick the kick panel that the ECU is hiding behind and see if that gets it going again.  People have said that whatever loses connection in the ECU can be be "fixed" by beating/tapping/kicking the ECU.  Won't hurt it, the electronics inside are not today's super-tiny sensitive type, they're big clunky pieces.

[siteunseen]

A can of air duster for cleaning computers will work, walmart or office max.

[EuroDat]

There are a couple of things that can help determine if it's a californian car.

1. The Californian model had an egr valve at the back of the inlet manifold. Fed models didn't get the egr until August 76.

2. The wires coming out of the distributor will be Green and a red wire. Fed models have an extra brown wire, making it 3 wires in total.

3. The Californian TIU will have 5 wires going to it and the early Californian model will have 6 wires. Fed models have a dual timing system and have 7 wires.

All the TIU's up to August 77 wiil work in the Californian car, just need to play with the wiring bit.

Edited November 10, 2015 by EuroDat

[rcb280z]

Ok I just skimmed through this thread real quick again and I don't see where the fusible links were checked. Were they? 

 

Jai, when the car stalls is it after hitting a bump in the road or something similar?  Any jarring of the car? The reason I ask is I had a problem earlier this year with my car wanting to cut out on me. Was driving along and when I crossed the railroad tracks it seemed like it wanted to just quit but it didn't. Long story short. I had a bad connection at one of my fusible links under the white caps on the passenger side of the engine bay. Probably not the problem but would be a good idea to check them. If they are corroded they need to be cleaned. One less thing to worry about.

 

And if they have been checked well then...........

[rcb280z]

That is the TIU on the passengers side of the vehicle. It is the correct type for a californian car. E12-12 is the correct type number. Its the type with 5 wires. The very early 75 280Z had the E12-9 TIU and they had 6 wires, the extra being an extra Black/White stripe power wire.

Do you think there is something wrong with it? They generally cause trouble when they are hot (about 15-30 minutes running), but you have had problems just after starting and still coldish. So much going on in this thread I lost track a bit.

You can test it the next time it plays up by spraying freon on the TIU to force cool it and see if it starts.

Chas, when my ignition control module was going bad/gone bad it would show its ugly face driving it less than 10 minutes. I want to say more like 5 minutes IIRC. I have an extra ECU and ICM (TIU) that she can try if needed. But right now with everything thats been tested it seems to lean towards the ECU. But I'm no expert. What do you guys think, ZedHead, Chas, Site, everyone that has had their hands on it as well.

[Redwing]

Ok I just skimmed through this thread real quick again and I don't see where the fusible links were checked. Were they? 

 

Jai, when the car stalls is it after hitting a bump in the road or something similar?  Any jarring of the car? The reason I ask is I had a problem earlier this year with my car wanting to cut out on me. Was driving along and when I crossed the railroad tracks it seemed like it wanted to just quit but it didn't. Long story short. I had a bad connection at one of my fusible links under the white caps on the passenger side of the engine bay. Probably not the problem but would be a good idea to check them. If they are corroded they need to be cleaned. One less thing to worry about.

 

And if they have been checked well then...........

Hi,

Nope, no bumps causing it. Just.... there it is again!

As to the fusible links. When Steve was here last, he took his Dremmel tool with a wire brush on it, and cleaned them of their corrosion. Them, and everything else he could find that needed it. BTW, STEVE, I found a used set of the wires in RB today. So they were replaced, probably when they were fixing her up for sale. But the ones they put in were also used, right? They would have to be, as she was sold to me 12/14.

Jai

[Zed Head]

rcb, it's a hard problem to diagnose because some of the clues are missing or just haven't been examined yet.  

 

If it was the ignition module that would mean it's a no-spark problem when it doesn't start and that would show up on the tachometer.  No tachometer needle movement.  But her tachometer doesn't work.

 

If it's the fuel pump, the fuel pressure gauge would show it.  But it has to be examined while the car is not starting.  If the gauge is under the hood she'll have to get out, open the hood, try to start it, then go look at the gauge and see what pressure is left.  Difficult.

 

If it's the ECU, it would be a no-injection problem.  That could probably be seen with some Christmas tree lights stuck in to the injector clips.  Leave them there, confirm that they flash when the engine is running.  Then open the hood and watch the lights during the no-start problem.  But somebody will have to rig the lights up.  An LED circuit could probably be rigged up with some lengths of wire and placed where it's visible.  Some ingenuity and handiness required though.

 

Since these things are all somewhat difficult and need quickness to be effective (examine before the problem disappears), we're kind of stuck with replacing parts and seeing if the problem goes away.  It's just the way things are for the Red Bird.

 

To the fusible link point - just to be clear, and it may have been mentioned already, but when it doesn't start are we talking about endless cranking but no starting?  Or turning the key and nothing happens at all?

[rcb280z]

Ah yes, thanks. I had no cranking. Nothing at all. I don't recall now if Red Bird cranks or not after the stalling. Maybe Jai can remind me. 

Yes it does make for a difficult diagnosis Red Bird does. That's why I said I would be willing to send her the ECU and might as well send the ignition module as well at the same time. It is easier to try parts at this time in the game, so to speak. Be a different story if we all were close neighbors.

[Zed Head]

Actually, the fusible link to the EFI system could allow cranking but no starting.  And there are other no spark conditions like bad pickup coils in the distributor.

 

If we could get it down to either fuel supply, spark, or injection, that would help a lot.  All we have now are dying, then cranking but no starting.  Followed by starting again for no apparent reason.

 

Maybe trade cars with someone who can do a little detective work?

[Redwing]

When RedBird will not start, she indeed does crank. If the key turns, she always cranks.

Sorry I had not made that clear.

Jai

[Redwing]

I have to meet the insurance adjuster at 10 in the morning. I am concerned about what to do.

Let them pay the body shop, or let them give me the check?

Any advice would be helpful.

Thank you,

Jai

[gundee]

Ah yes, thanks. I had no cranking. Nothing at all. I don't recall now if Red Bird cranks or not after the stalling. Maybe Jai can remind me. 

Yes it does make for a difficult diagnosis Red Bird does. That's why I said I would be willing to send her the ECU and might as well send the ignition module as well at the same time. It is easier to try parts at this time in the game, so to speak. Be a different story if we all were close neighbors.

 

Likely not the only issue with RB but I am becoming suspicious of the ignition switch itself.

It does not happen very often but they do go bad.

If it were mine as long as we are trying parts out, I would try a different switch.

I did have a spare so I will see if I can find it.