The news about the attack on Iraq is probably not news to many of us here in the club.

However, I wanted to open up a topic about this just to talk and share opinions. Keep checking back and share links with each other as this event unfolds.

As of right now, the US remains poised for an attack as the 8pm ET (today) deadline approaches.

It appears that the US has support from many countries. But, it still appears that the UN is still not supporting this action.

Last night I caught part of the presentation given by the British Prime Minister Tony Blair. While I sat and watched his strong presentation, a lot of the reasoning behind the attack began to make sense.

There are various opinions about the subject and I would like to open a discussion about it.

I realize that many people will have different opinions on this matter. Please understand that your opinion is welcome and I will do what I can to minimize flame wars. And, if you are strong about a certain position on this matter, please don't flame those who might disagree.

Let's share with each other (links, ideas, etc) and keep talking about it as the event unfolds. All members are encouraged to participate and especially those from outside the US.

We are a global group with many different cultures and races. Keep this in mind when posting your comments. Thanks everyone. Let's talk!!

the war in iraq is being fought for a variety of reasons, at a variety of levels. we are there for democracy/freedom, we are there to finish what's been started, and we are there for the oil. none of these are the wrong reasons! a massive government and nation such as ours has to be motivated for more than a single reason before we will act. having been a history student, i focused alot on war because as i once read: "in war, i see the best of man, and the worse". war is an integral part of the human condition. i don't think we should taboo and ignore it. it's that mentality that keeps us from dealing with the hard issues. war is an acceptable part of national/international politics, when used as a last resort. sometimes force must be used, because some people only understand force. we've tried negotiating, now we bomb. as roosevelt once said "talk softly, but carry a big stick" (or something like that). as for some of the other things that have been said on this thread, clinton was a draft dodger, yet he sanctioned actions in kosovo, which we had about as much right there as we do now. 56% of the oil used in the us is imported. our biggest supplier? iraq (check out some of the websites on alternative fuels to see the stats). hitler was a power monger, so was stalin, so were most world leaders that we revere! napolean, alexander the great, julius caesar, charlamagne, etc. because of the revolutionary war in this country we tend to think there are pure motives for political decisions, that is rarely the case. after all the revolution was motivated (at the leadership level) by economics, but it was a variety of reasons why we as america fought. war, politics, and statecraft are gray areas, there is rarely a black or white. learn that, deal with it.

"from time to time, the tree of libery must be watered with the blood of heroes." thomas jefferson

If the French somehow see the US action as a land grab I can't wait to see what they say about this. Then again the Turks are going against what the US, and the world, wants so the French will support it.

The Position of Chirac on this issue he is clear (I am not tired yet, to repeat that you cannot can all people in the same box!!!!). He was against letting Turkey enter the European community until this question has been cleared... So for him it's a "NO CAN DO". Witch in turn, had upset all the vast Kurd community living in France when they saw the position he took on the Iraq crisis. For them it was hard to understand how he can support the Kurd and be against the war. But it's just that he is against using force to get Sadam out, not getting him out...

Have you read my post about the real representation of Mr Chirac ? Dig a little and you will see that in fact, at the same time last year, there was some questioning about sending him to jail for unclear political tricks... For me, he is not worse than the other, I wish I could say not as good :cry:

:mad: Now I am really mad . NPR bumped Car Talk for invasion coverage! Seriously tho I do rely on NPR and public television for most of my information about the invasion because I feel that I might be getting more objective coverage.

This might be too simplistic but: do you see any irony in our pro life elPresidente leading us into battle where many innocent children may be killed or injured? A life is a life.

'when push comes to shove the US shows up and invariably shoulders the majority of the burden.'

No Dan, not the majority, shared, yes and in WW1 the very fact that you had entered frightened the germans into surrendering before the war raged on their soil. That left a lot of Germans (particularly little corporals) thinking that their (Germany) country had been betrayed by the politicians and could have won or at least settled for a negociated peace. My point about Hitler was that it was his invading of other lands that aroused the other countries into war not his internal policies however horrific - he didn't kill the millions in Germany but throughout OCCUPIED Europe ! We, and that includes the US in the 30s admired him for having rebiult the country !

Mike,

"If anyone protests the war, it should have been done before the war started. NOT when the war is underway. "

Does the fact that it's underway make it any more right ? I know you're gonna say now it's started we all should support them and I do - it's too late to winge about whether they should be there ! But people should be allowed to protest - peacefully though

Zlishous - don't forget the reconstruction projects as previously mentioned probably to be paid for by a US led commision paying out 'reparations' from oli generated oil revenue which will drag on as the oil is sold a little cheaper to US/UK companies than the market price !

Stryder

I almost laughed when I heard that the Turks had invaded the Kurdish lands ! A real farce except that it aint funny ! The Kurds (armed by us and you in order to defend themselves against Iraq)have said that they will attack any Turks moving through. So what happens ? WE go to defend a NATO member under attack from a foriegn power ?

If a united front cannot be presented to Saddam on his borders, there is no hope ! NO I don't support Turkey but didn't they say no to the B52s flying over their airspace but Blair sent them anyway ?

Stryder,

I hope you understand now what I meant about Hitler and the differences between his threat and please resist from calling me an idiot !!!

Are you going to have a go reading that book i mentioned ?

Objective coverage, all of try your hardest to look at all the opinions and this forum is one of the best sources it seems. I repeat, I am not against the US at all, I am not siding with your modern day Hitlers either, I jsy see the whole picture through different glasses !

Mike, we've been thoughtlessly invading the Holy Land since the 1100s and the CRusades were the largest scale, condoned (by the Pope, at the time all the Christians leader) savagery and personal wealth hunt ever organised !

Hi guys, what a fascinating little thread- Fred you are s $^!# stirrer !

Hey, Sean does it mean that I have been promoted in our club? Well thanks a lot President OFL ROFL I like it bette than my previous shir eater status... :love:

freedom of speach is our way of life...BUT...war protests after our troops are engaged is getting people killed.

Originally posted by livenbad

freedom of speach is our way of life...BUT...war protests after our troops are engaged is getting people killed.

I believe that the war protesters are expressing their opinion, just like the rest of us (excluding the ones that are doing damage to property). To say that they are "getting people killed". is completely insane. Tell me how anyone is "being killed" by those protests, and don't say that they are "encouraging the Iraqi army". The Iraqi army isn't even aware of what is going on in their own country let alone the rest of the world at this time.

Originally posted by Stryder

Anti-war protesters destroyed the US sec. defense home in Arizona. These people who are against violence ATTACKED the home of Donald Rumsfeld. They broke windows and devestated rooms by breaking furniture and destroying other objects. These people are holding a double standared by being against violence and the war, but at the same time commiting this act of crime.

Like I was saying earlier, these people aren't doing us any good. Send them to Iraq as human shields and see how it takes them to stand up to a tank.

How do they think a point like this can be handled? Should we remove our troops and stop the war just because the streets are littered with protestors?

What do they want?

These people are hypocritic fools. They are against war, but, at the same time CAUSING a war of their own.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

-- M

Sean,

My thoughts are based on the reality as to why the u.s. is really in Iraq (OIL). I am not oppossed to them being there for that reason, i just think people should be realistic in evaluating the real reasons for this "war/overthrow".

The humanitary benifits that come along with it are just a good smoke screen for the u.s. government. Again, i am all for us being there and supporting our troops, let's just not be dis-illusioned by all the propaganda.

Oh yeah, one other thing, about protesters. If you want people to see your point of view on any subject, the worst thing you can do is to wizz the people off you are trying to convince to see your side of the issue. Besides all the money it is costing these individual cities and the fact that it is taking law enforcement away from protecting our cities in this hightened time of terrorism, it is plain ignorant to use violence (which is happenening all over) to protest violence.

Bambikiller 240: since you think I am "insane" there is no point in trying to reason with you...however...you made my point...They ARE watching CNN..as was reported after last Gulf War. I should have said "may get people killed" rather than "is getting...". Sorry, but I don't think it's a good thing to boo the home team.:stupid: