The news about the attack on Iraq is probably not news to many of us here in the club.

However, I wanted to open up a topic about this just to talk and share opinions. Keep checking back and share links with each other as this event unfolds.

As of right now, the US remains poised for an attack as the 8pm ET (today) deadline approaches.

It appears that the US has support from many countries. But, it still appears that the UN is still not supporting this action.

Last night I caught part of the presentation given by the British Prime Minister Tony Blair. While I sat and watched his strong presentation, a lot of the reasoning behind the attack began to make sense.

There are various opinions about the subject and I would like to open a discussion about it.

I realize that many people will have different opinions on this matter. Please understand that your opinion is welcome and I will do what I can to minimize flame wars. And, if you are strong about a certain position on this matter, please don't flame those who might disagree.

Let's share with each other (links, ideas, etc) and keep talking about it as the event unfolds. All members are encouraged to participate and especially those from outside the US.

We are a global group with many different cultures and races. Keep this in mind when posting your comments. Thanks everyone. Let's talk!!

Originally posted by Mike

Let's just put Saddam and George W into a boxing (or wrestling) ring, let them fight, and MAKE MONEY via pay-per-view.

Somehow we need to figure out how to keep Saddam from biting off George's ear. :tapemouth

:stupid: :stupid:

I'd pay to see that one!

Let's just put Saddam and George W into a boxing (or wrestling) ring, let them fight, and MAKE MONEY via pay-per-view.

The best idea, ever ROFL and lets twist it a little insted of mud wrestling let it be oil wrestling... ROFL

I knew somthing good would come of this thread, good work.

I just learnt the really sad news that a US patriot missile has just shot down an allied RAF plane....

A couple of things really bother me about this invasion of Iraq. Politically, el Presidente comes out a winner on this. He will be reelected in 2004. The plutocracy run by far right wing religous zealots will be firmly established in Washington. He will appoint one, perhaps two right wind Supreme Court justices. More invasions to spread democracy and the "western wayof life" will occur. A gift from Bush to people who may fight back because they want to determine their own future and preserve their culture. This invasion is for oil and it is pay back time to all of the large corps who contributed to Bush's "election". There are billions of dollars ready for the taking, and contracts are already being awarded to big contributers and those with connections to Bush and Cheney.

All of this from a guy who is not really our elected President. Am I bitter about what happened in Florida and in the Supreme Court? You bet I am. Could/would Gore have done it differently? Who knows. They are all in the pockets of the money people. And the Democrats just sit back sucking their thumbs.

Who do the Democrats have that can take Bush on? Really nobody but a bunch of Senators and a Rep or two. Howard Dean sounds good but he will probably go as far as Bill Bradley. The American people do not want intelligent, thoughtful leaders. They respond to 30 sec TV pitches and talk show b.s.

All of you guys are exceptions of course. Guess I will have to cheer myself up with a drive.

please can we make this thread disappear - I do not think political discussions belong here.

Originally posted by Bruce Woolmore

please can we make this thread disappear - I do not think political discussions belong here.

If you don't like the thread.............AVOID IT!

It is easy to do, the title stays the same , all you have to do is remember the one you don't want to read!

Oviously there are others who are interested in it.

Practice your censorship somewhere else!

Friends,

it is a pitty that in some respect Saddam already is a winner.

The UN became ridiculous (what it in some respect already was, but not because of us), good old and slowly grown relations between our western countries got a questionmark and doubts and suspicion will remain for a long time and the young child "European Union" fell into at least 2 pieces - and that all for, yes, for what?

Let's start our reconstruction not too late

Rolf

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Originally posted by livenbad

freedom of speach is our way of life...BUT...war protests after our troops are engaged is getting people killed.

I remember reading Nixon saying 'the anit-war protests are the single biggest thing working against the United States' (in reference to anti Nam protests. That, eventually, was NOT a minority who through demonstration and lobbying via a democratic goverment system saved how many US lives ??? and money.

Sure, the hot heads who get violent should be prosecuted and the a**eholes who block the streets would be in the UK !

Styder - where are you ? With all the Brits your guys are killing, it's now the UK who's shouldering most of the burden !

This war is more farsical every day, ill prepared equipment (on the UK side at least), Turkey now doing what it wants - convenient that there were no US troops to stop them after they said no to US troops on the ground !

And who'da thought that the Iraqis wouldn't just surrender at the first sight of a cruise missile ? Remember that some of these guys have nothing to lose, if they survive this, they'll be done in by the relatives of those they've persecuted or be tried as war criminals. They, the typical Iraqi soldier is also seeing us as invaders and not liberators ! Maybe they don't understand we're doing them a favour !

Bruce - I hear you mate but I must crouch behind Big Carl and quote you his words "quote:

If you don't like the thread.............AVOID IT!

It is easy to do, the title stays the same , all you have to do is remember the one you don't want to read!

Obviously there are others who are interested in it.

BTW, welcome to Saddams' chatline !

Some of you were talking about maorale and I'm aslo sure that real professionals just get on with the job. But here's something:

Latest news, the court martial of two US pilots who dropped a 500 lb bomb on

a Canadian armed force encampment in Afghnistan 'by an undestandable

mistake', killing a dozen canadians, are not to be tried or loose thier

ranks, as it will 'effect morale' on the US pilots in kuwait...friggin

great!!

Add to that the US pilot who, in Italy severed the cable on a cable car who was not prosecuted - almost as if the cable had been put up the day before. Couldn't Clinton have ordered at least a payout to the families of victims and a 'sincere' apology ? None of this makes the US popular or more importantly credible.

Yeah, so I bear bait but in these two Iraq threads, the niavity (spelling ?) of some opinionated souls cries out to be redressed !

Don't get me wrong, I welcome an open debate and I can also be big enough to say I am/was wrong - who else ?

BTW on CNN, all I kept hearing was when we've won... What are peoples defintion of winning ? At what point have we 'won' ?

What have we won ?

And didn't there used to be a protocol agaisnt assasinating a countries leader ?

PS - hi Rolf, long time no read ! What is the general opinion over there on this 'crusade' ?

Mike,

Can we hold a poll here please (and I've assumed everyone is against Saddam) ?

eg:

For the war no matter what - we have no choice !

For the war but I don't like the after effects !

Against the war but I support the troops now they're in !

Against the war - pull out now !

Do you feel we need the option 'not moved either way !' ?

I don't !

Thanks,

Sean

Check out the pic below.

Not only are these Iraqi smart enough to know when they are outgunned, they know how to pick their vehicles!:classic:

I told myself I would not get in this but here I am.I will try to make my view short and hope to provide food for thought.In just 1995 the dow was at 4000.The wall street hucksters started the .com mania.The promise was put money in a 401k and hold for the long term and retire nice.We then made more chips,cell phones, pc's, more fiber optics--tooo much everything!!Remember company earning don't matter?The new paradigm?They knew they were setting the masses up for a fall.I ask you this -how can everyone be a winner?They can't! The year 2000 marked the dow high of near 12,000.The herd was now fat and it was time to be slaughtered.The need is for some thing to blame it on.First was the .com.Then the dishonest corporate CEO's.Remember these guys sat on the boards of alot of businesses.So you do this to "proforma"earnings? Damn we need to do that at my company because if you lie about earning ,people will buy your stock and not mine.I need to be "creative "also about accounting.Thus the virus began.You can only pay your visa with your master card so long.Our best companys are legally allowed to add FORECAST earnings in the pension funds to their bottom lines.So money that is not even theirs becomes wishful profits.NOW the piper must be paid.Pension funds worldwide owe BILLIONS.How do we cover the Lies????Who can we blame???Sept 11 gave us that answer.

It is every Americans (and free democratic citizen) right to protest and like a far wiser man than I once said “I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it” (I Para phrase). Perhaps because I have spent my entire adult life in the military I have tunnel vision when it comes to these questions and points of view. I look at these protesters and think what are you protesting, who are you to shake your fist at me, when you have no clue on earth what it means to serve your country. I guess I am out of touch with civilian life; it just bothers me that people get so angry about a subject that they really know very little about or will ever experience beyond CNN or the history channel.

As far as Brits being killed and I assume Sean that you talking about the Patriot battery that took out that Tornado and the Helo that crashed, this is the nature of war. The complexity of the systems involved and the shear number of mechanized equipment will mean accidents, and equipment failure. I have personally seen aircraft crash, ships run into each other, people shoot parts of their bodies off and one individual throw the pin instead of the grenade, this was all in peace time and not one instance made national news, it just happens. I have worked with British forces before and they are just as well prepared as the US, they just don’t have as much stuff as we do.

Sean is right that those pilots he mentioned in the cable car incident and in the bombing of the Canadian troops should have been prosecuted and reparations made to the victims families. However I for one am pretty tired of nations propagating the anti American feeling that exists, and frankly I don’t care if those countries that feel this way never talk to us again. I used to think that the isolationist movement in the 30’s and 40’s was foolish but I am beginning to so their point, albeit for different reasons. I think the UN needs us a whole lot more than we need them.