The news about the attack on Iraq is probably not news to many of us here in the club.

However, I wanted to open up a topic about this just to talk and share opinions. Keep checking back and share links with each other as this event unfolds.

As of right now, the US remains poised for an attack as the 8pm ET (today) deadline approaches.

It appears that the US has support from many countries. But, it still appears that the UN is still not supporting this action.

Last night I caught part of the presentation given by the British Prime Minister Tony Blair. While I sat and watched his strong presentation, a lot of the reasoning behind the attack began to make sense.

There are various opinions about the subject and I would like to open a discussion about it.

I realize that many people will have different opinions on this matter. Please understand that your opinion is welcome and I will do what I can to minimize flame wars. And, if you are strong about a certain position on this matter, please don't flame those who might disagree.

Let's share with each other (links, ideas, etc) and keep talking about it as the event unfolds. All members are encouraged to participate and especially those from outside the US.

We are a global group with many different cultures and races. Keep this in mind when posting your comments. Thanks everyone. Let's talk!!

There is an old saying "Never wound the king".The saud's did on 9/11.They not only provided a scapegoat for the stockmarket to take your money ,they also gave us the reason to take some oil wells and stop their funding.OPEC.Think about it ,If they wanted us hurt why come here when they could just blow up the oil wells in their back yards???The answer is they would not kill the goose that laid their golden eggs.They were paid not too!!.So here we are today.The world markets have a scapegoat to blame as they take your money and the market goes back to around dow 5000 where it should be and we now have our own oil fields and OPEC can kiss our arse.The terrorist gravy train has been derailed and we have $10.00 a barrel (42 gallons) oil.Then the world economy will have paid the piper and the game begins again.As horrible as 9/11 was I think that the end result will be the terrorist negative wishes will become a positive that no one could have dreamed.Talk about a plan that backfired!!!

Thank you Daniel, your view on this subject is very close to mine, most of the wars or rude acts in the past have been made by Politician (Tribal chief, King, Emperors you name them... but we need them) to cover Economical goals (more land, gold, spice, women...). It's human, nothing we can do about it, look at kids in school... The heat that goes around is the Mayonnaise that make a great sandwich? put some more sauce and cover the taste, but once the meal is over and digested... you wish you had healthy food instead and start to feel bad! (sorry for the culinary picture :stupid: ) Ask the veterans of all wars (A lot around here!) and they will have good memories (Stockholm syndrome) but after a while most will say that the whole thing escaped them, they didn't had a clue to what they where doing, for whom... and wish the war had not started first.

Even if Hollywood isn’t my cup of French tea (read Cognac), maybe the first movie Rambo could give you a clue on what I am talking about…

PS : Psychiatist Mike, are you going to charge us a lot at the end of this world therapy? ROFL ROFL

I wonder what Saddam's reply would be?

Dan,

"I think the UN needs us a whole lot more than we need them" - what would happen then if the US pulled out or significantly reduced it's military support (to a similar level to that of the UK or Germany) for the UN ? Perhaps the UN wouldn't be seen as a US tool.

I hasten to add that I am NOT against the US §

Daniel, nice slant on this topic which will maybe induce some contributors here to look a little deeper than simply liberating an oppressed people from a dictator playing with chemical/biological weapons (wasn't it the US that gave them Anthrax to use against Iran should Iraq be overrun?). I hope you're right about the plan backfiring, I have to hope that something good will come of our exposure to evil !

Fred, "more land, gold, spice, women..." don't you have enough in that harem of yours ? It's my turn to be the shiteater - at the end of the week, my new 'mission' takes me to Ile de France until end-December !

If nothing else, here we are learning (well, I am) about the differences caused by different cultures - I group Europe together which isn't perhaps quite accurate and compare it to the US citizens, not forgetting the Aussie/NewZealanders. Here, we all wite the same language, and have the same hobby/interest but our history or perception of it and that of other countries leads us to different conclusions. I find it fascinating and thank all of you for your contributions - of course, you're all wrong 'cos not only am I English but a Sagitarian too !!!:classic:

Originally posted by Sean Dezart

Dan,

"I think the UN needs us a whole lot more than we need them" - what would happen then if the US pulled out or significantly reduced it's military support (to a similar level to that of the UK or Germany) for the UN ? Perhaps the UN wouldn't be seen as a US tool.

I think if the U.S reduced it's Military support in the UN the UN probably wouldn't be seen at all, but i see where your coming from.

I did read a piece today on yahoo today that brought a smile to my face. France is now in heavy negotiations to be part of the post Saddam scene. Their afraid they won’t get their share of all the lucrative oil and reconstruction contracts that are going around. I found that very amusing. But hey they didn’t want to come to the party so no door prize for them.

I am making light of the whole dark political agenda thing that many have made reference to, particularly in the United States direction. I don’t doubt for a second that that is on the US agenda to give the majority of these contracts to US and British companies. However I don’t believe that oil and money were catalysts for this war, in the end I think it’s about stopping a lunatic from getting his hands on nuclear weapons. Or perhaps Bush lost his Monday night card game With the Illuminati, and had to in good faith invade Iraq to further the new world order.

Originally posted by Dan

......Or perhaps Bush lost his Monday night card game With the Illuminati, and had to in good faith invade Iraq to further the new world order.

LMAOROFL :tapemouth :stupid:

Dan, Dan, Dan........ what can I say?

I think that is the best possible answer yet ROFL

DAN. You assert that the protesters do not have a clue what defending their country is like. Protesters in our area include: decorated vets of WWII, vets of Korea, Viet Nam, Gulf War 1, Somilia, and Kosovo. They include families that have lost loved ones in combat. They include families that have loved ones in Iraq now and feel that the best way to support them is to get them home before they become a casualty of this unjust, illegal invasion of a soverign nation. These people protest based on experiencing the horrors of war first hand. I presume that many of the prowar chicken hawks have no first hand experience in getting shot at, or seeing mutilitated bodies, seeing young men dying calling for their mothers. Ideally all of the people that would send young people into battle would be there as well serving their country rather that sitting in the confort of their homes.

I respect the ideals of people that feel the need to defend their country. It is a great sacrifice to go off to war. I also reallize that many of them are there because they were ordered and most of lthem must be scared s---tless. To my sadness, the body count grows.

ZWOLLEY:

Well said!

"To my sadness, the body count grows."

Yeah, another two ""unavoidable"" British casualties from 'friendly fire' - I think there are more declared British dead than Iraqi dead - all 'shot in the back' !

Is your army too powerful ? And if the UN wasn't seen at all - who would notice, it didn't stop the Dutch UN force handing over hundreds of refugees in (Serbia / Bosnia?) to their oposition who then assidiously reduced their countries foriegn problems with lead !

We don't evolve faster than where they is a void - if the UN collapsed due to a reduced US military presence, something would be reformed to replace it !

Makes me think that the US power players (not joe dough) likes to have the UN !

And I'm not sure that the reconstruction projects will go to other than US companies - as has been said here, the US is shouldering the (financial) burden of the war - to the victor, the spoils !

I believe France did play a part in '91 and the end result was they didn't get any post war contracts so once bitten....

I did read a piece today on yahoo today that brought a smile to my face. France is now in heavy negotiations to be part of the post Saddam scene.

It's great to have a smile those days. :classic:

At least, if I don’t like the man, CHIRAC is coherent. The US are outside the UN for now, the fact that BUSH decided to go alone doesn't make him right. We will never know what would have ... 'cause he was afraid of a veto. I don't really see what to be scare of if he goes anyway???? :cross-eye

From what I see, A collegial assembly say that they have what the majority would call a good idea "don't go!", and a few members of this same assembly says "we have a better one, lets go, and by the way I do not really think what you say interest me!). The fact that those few stepped outside of the circle doesn't kill this circle. The question is when are they coming back in, do they want to? If yes, then they should go back and discus with all the players, no? Or else, it would prove that those who where against the war where right, but as you said it is against Sadam ,and not for money, so we have nothing to be afraid off, we will all do our best for Iraq.

By the way, a tinny little question is hunting the back of my enormous, over inflated French head. - Hey, it’s your fault, letting me think that such a small and stupid country as mine can have so much power in our hand, it was a shock for me. You see, our veto is apparently a lot stronger that all the others, I knew it, but it’s nice to say it to the face of the world, those Russian and other nations are none existent, they certainly have a ridiculous veto. Your right, pick up on the strong one! Oh and don’t yell to much after Germany they might not send you the last Beemer, Mercedes or the new Cooper that you like so much… so ban the our Stinky Cheese and whine (not too long, please, I have to absorb all those products to keep the country going, I have gained 10 pounds yet) and drive your German tank… - but back to my question, it could be a thread alone :

Why a region who has more history and feedback than all Europe+USA+Australia has not yet a nice democracy like we have? Maybe it just doesn't work there, I must be wrong... they just didn't had luck yet.

Of course its about oil, which is entirely in the US national

interest, as evidenced that a gallon of gas in the US is cheaper than a

gallon of bottled water and any US politician who suggests taxing juice

gets unelected very quickly. But its also about getting GWB re-elected.

This was on the agenda long before 9-11. As far as the Saddam and Bin Laden connection, there’s something in that except it overlooks the fact that Saddam is a socialist/fascist regime and Osama is very much a capitalist. They are both Arabs and the two respect different strains of Islam, which doesn't really matter in this as Saddam is a convenient, erstwhile Muslim but I guess anti-Ameicanism makes a more potent unifying force but Osama has slammed Saddam big time quite a few times, coz he thinks his religion is very flaky.

US ‘liberating’ Iraq??? Saddam's is probably about the most brutal regime on earth but the US has never really cared that much about that, Saddam was a useful client of theirs in the campaign on Iran that really just careered out of control. The liberation stuff is just propaganda that serves the current purpose.

Among other agendas the war is designed to help 'fix' Palestine but a successful outcome for the US will test its comittment on that because of the strong Israeli lobby in the US, which does not want Palestine independence and will inevitably lead to post-war frictions between UK, which genuinely does, and the US as UK mends relations with Europe and the US equivocates on Israel and Palestine. Take note of the fact that most current terrorist attacks make reference to the Palestinian cause, but sadly this does'nt get the attention it deserves to be resolved if only to at least take away what is used as the fuel to getting support against US foreign policy in the area. Tackle this issue and you will be tackling terrorism aimed at the US at it's core.

The big issue is how the US manages the regional peace, which if badly handled will do more to create terror than leaving Saddam in play. He's only ever terrorised his own people, and a few of his neighbours and at the end of the day, the West doesn't give a rat's arse about the M-E.

Australian member.

Anyways politics aside, I joined your site recently and have found it very comprehensive and useful. I have seen some beautiful members cars and look forward to posting some pix soon.

Cheers!