Engine only runs with starter fluid

[hatepotholez]

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

Set the mark at 10 degrees and remove the distributor cap.  Make sure that the #1 cylinder is the one that's getting the spark at that time.  Where the rotor is pointing, and the points will have just started to open.  With all of the things that you have going on you probably need to start from scratch.  It's actually very easy to do, just get the various parts aligned.

Ok I'll try this.

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

I just saw your pictures on the other forum.  You really should take some time to think about the combustion cycle and the various things that need to happen in sequence.  You're way back at 101 level, no offense.  

Get the damper mark, and the cam marks (notch and groove with the chain tight), and the points about to open (the bump on the distributor shaft), and the rotor pointing at the correct plug wire (#1).  All together, at the same time.  Just start by turning the engine in the proper direction until the damper mark is at zero, then look at all of the areas I listed, and make sure things are correct.  The notch and groove are shown in the Engine Mechanical chapter.

No offense taken. But I did verify TDC at the lobes, piston up, notch on the crank, rotor pointing towards the drivers side headlight. . The only thing I did not verify was the timing marks on the chain, this engine was rebuilt before I purchased it. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

While you have the floats detached from the lids put a small amount of black RTV or whatever fuel resistant adhesive around the bottom of the lids and glue the cork gaskets to the lids. The thin layer dries fast so do one at a time. Without the floats you can get the lids on quicker. Put the screws in and slightly tighten them down leaving the lid on overnight. You won't have to worry with those gaskets for a long time.

How many turns out are the nozzles? If you have the floats close  then 2.5 counter clockwise should be good while you figure out the timing. If your float tangs were that high I'd bet you had to run the nozzles way down, like 4 or 5 turns? That would blacken those plugs now that the float level is close. Hit them with a wire brush or wheel and see if they're still good. good luck

Thanks i'll try that. The nozzles are 2.5 down.

[Zed Head]

Here's a picture from the FSM showing the notch and groove inspection.  The groove is on the plate behind the sprccket and the notch is in the edge of the sprocket, next to the plate.

[siteunseen]

This the first one I glued sometime this past summer. Off and on at least four times. Just don't over tighten the screws. 

I understand you have bigger problems I'm just bored. 

 

Here's some pictures of what ZH is talking about.

http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/timing/mechtime.html

 

[Zed Head]

That's a great reference from atlanticz.ca.  The drawings in the FSM don't give a good idea of what they actually look like.  I cut out the part that shows the notch and groove, although the yellow arrow is off a bit..

 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Zed Head

[hatepotholez]

13 hours ago, siteunseen said:

This the first one I glued sometime this past summer. Off and on at least four times. Just don't over tighten the screws. 

I understand you have bigger problems I'm just bored. 

 

Here's some pictures of what ZH is talking about.

http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/timing/mechtime.html

 

Thanks.

13 hours ago, Zed Head said:

That's a great reference from atlanticz.ca.  The drawings in the FSM don't give a good idea of what they actually look like.  I cut out the part that shows the notch and groove, although the yellow arrow is off a bit..

Does anyone else find it odd that the image below shows up on every page?  Or is it just my computer that does it?  Fluids and capacities?  Really?

 

Yes, I do have this photo actually saved to my phone. I don't recall seeing that notch, but I will check again now knowing that it's actually on the camshaft holding plate and not the actual cam gear itself. 

Edited January 3, 2017 by hatepotholez

[hatepotholez]

Ok some great progress today. I used a dial gauge(like a piston stop) inserted into cyl 1 spark plug hole to find absolute TDC. This worked great. But even before this I tried looking for the notch and groove on the cam plate and cam gear, no luck maybe I didn't look hard enough. Anyway it was cold so I continued, I got TDC on cyl 1, using the gauge on the compression stroke, the cam lobes were in the V orientation. I looked down on my damper and it was no where near 0 TDC, more like 50 degrees. I knew the issue right away, my damper was twisted at some point. So I used a white ink pen and made a mark to locate the new TDC mark. I also saw my distributor tang was at 12 not 11:25. Went on to the distributor locked it down and tried to start it, had to play with the distributor a little bit and then it ran. I was able to set the distributor where there was no backfiring and the engine revved easily. I then used the timing light which is useless as my damper has incorrect measurements. I noticed the timing was maybe at 10-15 degrees, this is a very rough estimate.  As of now i'm done with the timing, I will have to one weekend thoroughly go over the timing. I'll look for the notch and groove, check to see at what pin my cam gear was installed on, check crank to cam timing,  drop the oil pump and realign the distributor drive, install a new damper.

The next is to tackle the carbs, I readjusted the front float and the car was less rich than before. I tried looking for some clear hoses to check my float levels(thanks Peter for this suggestion and the multiple other suggestion) but couldn't find any. But in the meantime I will buy some plastic tubing and try to make some float level gauges from the bowl drain bolts. This float issue are a real pain in the arse, I'm done trying to bend them this way and that way to get it straight. I know for sure the front carb has more gas in the bowl as compared to the rear per the WD-40 stick per @siteunseen(thanks!) I'm going to buy some new ones and call it a day. My carbs btw are almost synced as I used my uni-syn to check between them so once I fix the float levels and some minor adjustments they should be good to go.

 

[Zed Head]

You might have a later model damper, with the timing tab on the passenger side, or vice versa.  You need to find out what's going on, because if your damper has spun then it's failing, and could cause more damage than just a misplaced timing mark when it lets go for good (bad).

Edited January 7, 2017 by Zed Head

[hatepotholez]

Ok. I'm definitely changing the damper, I don't believe it's a later style pointer, no idea of the damper. Here's a pic. 

[siteunseen]

That's the same as my early '72, pointer and pulley.  I think it would be worth the time figuring out if your timing chain sprocket lines up with the TDC markings.  I've got that stuff outside in a storage building and if I took each piece and took a picture of them separate then you would be able to figure it out.  I'll try and get that together for you asap but it's COLD!!! down here. 

A quick way to look and see if it's close is look at the front of the pulley at TDC.  The notch on the crank's nose where the "key lock"? slides in should be pointed straight up.  

I found a thrust plate in my guest/junk room.  If you'll look through the hole on the cam sprocket, to the left you'll see a notch on the backside of the sprocket and in that notch you should see a small line to the left of the bolt on the thrust plate.

The whole reason I'm saying this is because it may be as easy as moving the cam sprocket to the next hole.  They have #1, #2 and #3 for adjusting out the chain stretch.

Edited January 8, 2017 by siteunseen

[siteunseen]

[hatepotholez]

I'm thinking that the camshaft gear might be a aftermarket unit and the hub is larger than the OE which might cover the groove on the plate. 

Edited January 8, 2017 by hatepotholez

[Zed Head]

I seem to recall that some aftermarket timing chain sprockets don't have notches.  It's the sprocket that has the notch.  

I'd focus on that damper first.  It's a very important part even though it doesn't seem to do much but spin.