Cranking Engine but no Start...

[jalapenobusiness]

Hi CZC! 

Long time lurker and first time poster. I have much enjoyed the content that is provided here on CZC forums. I am in a pickle however. 
Long story short. My 280z was placed in the garage for nearly a year. I am trying to get her running smoothly. When I crank the car, the car will run roughly  (as if some cylinders were not firing.) My car would shake all over the place. A friend told me that it was mis firing so I did the easiest and most common things first and that was to replace the spark plugs, spark wires, cap and rotor. After installing all the said things, it ran and idled under 1000 rpms after gassing the car for maybe 5 mins (still rough shaking...). Now, here is the weird part. I turned off my car in attempt to screw the battery on tightly (i left it loose). I approached the battery with my wrench and sparks flew from the positive terminal. Boy... did I have to change my underwear...

I detached the battery cables and then reconnected them in positive then negative fashion. The car will now only crank....It wont start. My friend assumed that I short circuited a fuse when I made the battery spark but I couldnt tell where to start. Any suggestions as to how to approach this dilemma? 

Best,
Jalapeno Business

[Mark Maras]

 How big was the spark? Did the wrench hit grounded metal when the spark jumped? I'm assuming something that you did caused it & it wasn't random. Anyway, I'd look at the fusible link(s). Unfortunately, I don't know the location on the 280s but the info should be avail. in any manual or on line. 

[jalapenobusiness]

Hi Mark Maras,

The spark would be less than 6 inches high. When the socket wrench touch the nut on the positive terminal, that was when it sparked. I had replaced the fusible links for the alternator/ignition relay, switch and EFI relay (1977 datsun- located to the right of the batter on the passenger side.) and the car still will not run. It just cranks. It was able to start before all this happened. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by jalapenobusiness

[Pmg]

Check all the fuses. Are you getting fuel pressure? Anything smell burned?

PMG

[jalapenobusiness]

How would I go about checking fuel pressure? Nothing smelled burned atm. I had checked only the fusible links which I had just replaced. The fusebox, located on the right foot side of the passenger, seemed okay. 
I had a bottle of liquid starter and sprayed them in each spark plug entry (removing them and spraying starter fluid directly into the port that the spark plugs go into.) The first crank it tried to start but fail. After that, the car just cranks and would not start. 

[SteveJ]

ALWAYS put the year of your car in your posts or your signature. There are variations in the 280Zs.

 

1. Buy a decent inline fuel pressure gauge and install it under the hood. That is how you check fuel pressure. Make sure you get one that will go up to at least 60 PSI.

2. There is a fusible link for the EFI. It is separate from the other fusible links. You need to check that. It wouldn't hurt to check the other links, too. Use an ohmmeter to check. Visible inspection is not adequate.

[Pmg]

Agreed on the fusible links. Also, most people place the fuel pressure gauge post filter under the hood. I hear the gauges with the liquid inside is more accurate. I bought mine at Jegs, but I imagine they are available locale.

PMG

[Zed Head]

My 280z was placed in the garage for nearly a year. I am trying to get her running smoothly. When I crank the car, the car will run roughly  (as if some cylinders were not firing.) My car would shake all over the place. 

 

. After installing all the said things, it ran and idled under 1000 rpms after gassing the car for maybe 5 mins (still rough shaking...). Now, here is the weird part. I turned off my car in attempt to screw the battery on tightly (i left it loose). I approached the battery with my wrench and sparks flew from the positive terminal. Boy... did I have to change my underwear...

 

I had a bottle of liquid starter and sprayed them in each spark plug entry (removing them and spraying starter fluid directly into the port that the spark plugs go into.) The first crank it tried to start but fail. After that, the car just cranks and would not start. 

 

I shortened your story to the most basic stuff.  You never said if it ran well before it was stored or even if it was you that stored it.  It sat for at least a year, did you drain the fuel or add new fuel?  Could be just bad gas.  You haven't mentioned the most basic thing, checking for spark at a plug wire.  But you did say that it tried to start with fluid, which is a sign that there is spark.  But you're not using the starter fluid correctly, it needs to be sprayed in to the manifold, either right before or during cranking.

 

You also haven't confirmed that the firing order is correct.  Rough running after working on the plugs and wires is often caused by installing the wires incorrectly.

 

I don't want to short-circuit (pun) everyone's suggestions but it seems to me that confirming firing order, and using the starting fluid correctly while cranking the engine would tell you quite a bit.  And/or checking for spark at a plug wire.  You're about to dig deep in to an engine that, apparently, was running okay recently.  Might be getting ahead of yourself.

[jalapenobusiness]

ALWAYS put the year of your car in your posts or your signature. There are variations in the 280Zs.

 

1. Buy a decent inline fuel pressure gauge and install it under the hood. That is how you check fuel pressure. Make sure you get one that will go up to at least 60 PSI.

2. There is a fusible link for the EFI. It is separate from the other fusible links. You need to check that. It wouldn't hurt to check the other links, too. Use an ohmmeter to check. Visible inspection is not adequate.

EFI Fusible Link.jpg

Being that my car started before would mean I am getting fuel, right? I wouldnt see what the problem is now if it wouldnt start. 

I had just replaced every fusible links so I am assuming they are still good to go. After replacing them, it would still only crank. The fuel gauge will be my next mission. However, wouldnt the car need to be running to get an accurate fuel pressure reading?

 

 

I shortened your story to the most basic stuff.  You never said if it ran well before it was stored or even if it was you that stored it.  It sat for at least a year, did you drain the fuel or add new fuel?  Could be just bad gas.  You haven't mentioned the most basic thing, checking for spark at a plug wire.  But you did say that it tried to start with fluid, which is a sign that there is spark.  But you're not using the starter fluid correctly, it needs to be sprayed in to the manifold, either right before or during cranking.

 

You also haven't confirmed that the firing order is correct.  Rough running after working on the plugs and wires is often caused by installing the wires incorrectly.

 

I don't want to short-circuit (pun) everyone's suggestions but it seems to me that confirming firing order, and using the starting fluid correctly while cranking the engine would tell you quite a bit.  And/or checking for spark at a plug wire.  You're about to dig deep in to an engine that, apparently, was running okay recently.  Might be getting ahead of yourself.

 

Sorry about the vagueness. The car was running perfectly before I stored her for a year. The only issue was the radiator fluid that she would rip every once in a while. I did drain the fuel that was left over in the car. I dropped the tank and washed it will acid/base etc.. The firing order should be correct because when the car was operational I made notes of the routes of the wires. When I replaced the cap and rotors, I replaced them one by one. I think you are right on this. The car was running beautifully but after she sat for a year, it became difficult. I will check for sparks. If my wires and cap and rotors are new, what would be the reason why I wouldnt be getting sparks? 

[SteveJ]

Being that my car started before would mean I am getting fuel, right? I wouldnt see what the problem is now if it wouldnt start. 

I had just replaced every fusible links so I am assuming they are still good to go. After replacing them, it would still only crank. The fuel gauge will be my next mission. However, wouldnt the car need to be running to get an accurate fuel pressure reading?

 

 

 

Sorry about the vagueness. The car was running perfectly before I stored her for a year. The only issue was the radiator fluid that she would rip every once in a while. I did drain the fuel that was left over in the car. I dropped the tank and washed it will acid/base etc.. The firing order should be correct because when the car was operational I made notes of the routes of the wires. When I replaced the cap and rotors, I replaced them one by one. I think you are right on this. The car was running beautifully but after she sat for a year, it became difficult. I will check for sparks. If my wires and cap and rotors are new, what would be the reason why I wouldnt be getting sparks? 

From your description, I inferred that you got the sparks from the battery then the car would not start again. Did I misunderstand that?

Did you replace all 5 fusible links? There are four under the covers and one for the EFI.

 

Did you clean out the fuel lines after sitting for a year? They could be gunked up.

 

The firing order should be 1-5-3-6-2-4 counterclockwise.

 

Issues that could cause no spark:

Improperly grounded coil

Bad Transistor Ignition Unit, TIU (rare)

Lack of voltage to the TIU

Bad connection to the TIU.

 

The FSM has good diagnostics. You may want to review the EF and EE sections.

[Patcon]

Don't assume anything. You need fuel, spark and air in the proper amounts. I would check for spark first. Then move on to fuel. Check and double check. SteveJ gave good advise about using the factory service manual diagnostics.

[jalapenobusiness]

OKay! Thanks for all of your guys' suggestion. I did take them into account. It seems like it was a bad battery connection. The buttplug for the negative terminal was not seated correctly. It is running now.

However....It is quite rough when driving. When in 1st gear, it jolts/surges a lot. It gets smoother as you transition up gears. Now, I am providing you with a video of how the engine is operating. It idles nicely, but as you gas it it seems to struggle. ANy thoughts on this? 

Edited November 18, 2015 by jalapenobusiness