Bringing back the RedZ

[DaveR]

Got out in the garage a bit this weekend, and a few more things taken apart. Rear brakes are stripped down and ready for some new hardware/brake cylinders and brake hoses. I'll need to fabricate a new hardline around the wheel hub and new flare nuts because I had to destroy things to get them out. Not a huge deal.

I ripped out the AC components as well, all except the AC radiator jiggy whose mounting screws are trapped behind the cooling system radiator.

There was a large bracket to hold the AC compressor and the tensioning pulley. It used 2 common bolts that hold up the fuel rail around the engine, and a 3rd bolt down at the base of the Distributor. (as well as 2 closer to the fuel pump which I don't think had a secondary purpose) I think the 2 smaller bolts for the fuel rail were just the original bolts pulled out a bit to capture the bracket metal, but the bolt near the distributor is probably not original. It even had a little standoff spacer to help bridge the distance to the bracket. I want to put the correct bolt back in place, but I have no idea what length it wants to be, any help? (it is the double red circle in the picture attached). In general I am hoping most of the bolts used where the originals and besides the distributor one it doesn't appear that any of them are that important.

In other news, is there any easy way to break the little spacer block free of the fuel pump? Its stuck on there pretty good but I need to fit up my replacement using that block again and some new gaskets.

Thanks all

Edited January 2, 2016 by DaveR

[DaveR]

Starting inspecting the cooling system today, and it is quite gummed up. The top of the thermostat was almost totally blocked, and the little Y piece down by the water pump was basically totally blocked off as well. 

I plan to replace the water pump and possibly the radiator (not sure how I know if i need to, unless these signs are evidence enough) and obviously clean out all the lines I can get to...  but should I be worried about blockages inside the engine? I'll be running a ton of water through it to make sure I clean it out as best I can once it comes time.... but I just don't know what I am really looking at and how bad it could possibly be.

Maybe it just built up there because that's where the coolant sat when the engine was turned off? Assuming the thermostat was closed and the water pump wasn't letting the coolant by, i suppose this is where it would pool? Hopefully it drains out from everywhere else.

What are the options for radiator replacements?  I don't require the OEM look, I think the aluminum ones look pretty good. I would like to get one that can handle a possibly L28 upgrade in the future, if there is a difference in performance I need to be aware of. I would also like to keep the cooling fan original for the time being if possible.

Thanks all

Really hoping I don't also have to replace the heater core, although i really don't ever plan to drive in the cold if it is.

 

 

I should mention that the buildups are like rock hard and I have to chip away at them with a screwdriver to break it up.

Edited January 3, 2016 by DaveR

[Zed Head]

37 minutes ago, DaveR said:

Starting inspecting the cooling system today, and it is quite gummed up. The top of the thermostat was almost totally blocked, and the little Y piece down by the water pump was basically totally blocked off as well. 

I plan to replace the water pump and possibly the radiator (not sure how I know if i need to, unless these signs are evidence enough) and obviously clean out all the lines I can get to...  but should I be worried about blockages inside the engine? I'll be running a ton of water through it to make sure I clean it out as best I can once it comes time.... but I just don't know what I am really looking at and how bad it could possibly be.

Maybe it just built up there because that's where the coolant sat when the engine was turned off? Assuming the thermostat was closed and the water pump wasn't letting the coolant by, i suppose this is where it would pool? Hopefully it drains out from everywhere else.

What are the options for radiator replacements?  I don't require the OEM look, I think the aluminum ones look pretty good. I would like to get one that can handle a possibly L28 upgrade in the future, if there is a difference in performance I need to be aware of. I would also like to keep the cooling fan original for the time being if possible.

Really hoping I don't also have to replace the heater core, although i really don't ever plan to drive in the cold if it is.

I should mention that the buildups are like rock hard and I have to chip away at them with a screwdriver to break it up.

I would take some chunks of the stuff and see if it dissolves in anything.  Vinegar comes to mind, or some of that CLR product.  If it dissolves and breaks up fill the engine with whatever does the job and let it sit.  If it doesn't soften up or dissolve it seems like you have a big job ahead.

It kind of looks like there was some foaming going on and maybe a leak-sealer was added.  Makes you wonder if there's not a bigger problem behind it.

I bought a low-cost OReilly auto parts radiator, Murray brand, I believe, and it works great, no problems keeping up.  That's on a 76 280Z with a fan shroud, but some very hot days in the Oregon summer.

[rossiz]

+1 that it looks like a PO used a "stop-leak" type of additive - combined w/rust from the block and corrosion from the aluminum head.

if you find a suitable chemical that will dissolve the crud, lots of filling/flushing is a good first start. if you don't have a flushing fitting for the radiator, you can use a piece of old garden hose cut and clamped onto the heater hose output at the back of the head to pressure flush, might want to isolate the radiator so you don't push some big chunks out of the block, through the big radiator hoses and plug up the small radiator core passages. you can also pop out the freeze plugs (new sets are cheap) and use a pressure washer to flush out the block from those openings. i did mine with the head off and flushed down through the water passages from the top and mounds of poop came out the frost plug holes. nasty. 

not fun, but you will sleep better having gotten as much of that stuff out of the engine as possible.

 

[DaveR]

I'm not terribly surprised its gummed up after sitting for 30 years. Surprised he had a leak that fast 30k original miles, but its entirely possible.  I took off a few more hoses near the Y after the heater core, and the Y itself and the hoses are very clean without build up. I also drained the engine at the block and there wasn't anything going on there either. Flowed out like a river and all over the floor hah. The fluid is very green after coming out, doesn't look any different than any other fluid i've taken out of a car.

I ran the garden hose through the radiator and while a few things and milkyness came out at the start it wasn't too bad. There were a few little hard candy chunks in there, but nothing huge (at least that made its way out) I want to take off the water pump and thermostat to get a look inside those as well, but that's it for this weekend. 

I'll certainly have to find a way to run/loop some flush through the engine. I'll work on what will dissolve it, man its rock solid though. I wish i hadn't cleaned out the pipes so quickly so i could use those for tests.

I can get my hands on a pressure washer, so I suppose it's a matter of where and with what to push through the block.

I'm just starting my disassembly process of the carbs and fuel system, so I will be gaining more access as time goes on. I'd prefer not to take off the intake/exhaust manifolds if I can help it, but doesn't seem like I will need to unless those freeze plugs are really hard to work on.

Also stinks that because the car isn't running yet, I can't use the heat cycling of the engine to move fluid around, and I don't really want to put everything back together with fresh bits to then clog them up with crap coming out of the engine.

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by DaveR

[Zed Head]

Could be a  PO ran low on coolant for quite a while and those are just water deposits that built up on the high spots from many drying cycles.  The lower return to the pump inlet might have been sucking air from the top of the head and doing the same.  

You can unscrew the elbow/T from the back of the head and see what's inside there.  Remove the thermostat/sensor housing also and look inside the coolant outlet also.

[rossiz]

be gentle when removing the water pump - there are some long bolts that go through the pump housing and act to clamp the front cover to the block and these can corrode and break. makes for a longer project in my experience...

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I can definitely vouch for Datsun spirit, the quality will amaze you.  He has build me a fantastic running L28 short block, and it has been on a 1000 mile rally and never missed a beat. It has also been driving hard and casually around town, equally happy to do whatever I ask of it.  Keep up the good work Dave!

[motorman7]

 

 

Hi Dave,

     Your car is absolutely amazing!  The interior and motor look exceptional.  I am sure the underside looks just as nice given the battery tray picture.  The color is great as well and seems to need just a bit of touch-up. 

      I have to be honest though, I am for the most part a purist, and have a difficult time understanding why you would modify such an original car.  A 240Z in such original condition as your car is quite rare, and thus pretty valuable.  As one of the other guys mentioned earlier on your thread, he thought you may have paid up to $20K for the vehicle.  I agree, looks like you got a really great deal.   However, assuming you make the changes you have outlined, your amazing Z will be like most of the other Z’s out there, modified engine and trans, aftermarket parts, etc.  Those are a dime a dozen and can be easily obtained for $10K or less (I have one of those by the way so nothing wrong with that, it’s my beater) 

      If you were you to keep the car original and just clean up the engine bay, I think that would be a much better decision as it would make the final product much more valuable and rare.  Probably cheaper as well.  I was fortunate to get my dad’s original 1970 240Z which is in similar condition to yours.  I cleaned up the engine bay (which I even question now whether I should have done that), but the result is that I now have Z that is very original and worth quite a bit.  I have been offered over $40K for the car and have it insured for more.  Whenever I bring it to shows, people are amazed at how original the car is.  Yes, it has some minor touched up scratches and decaying 45 year old rubber molding, but that is what makes the car special.  I believe yours would be the same.

      Anyway, just had to throw that out there as an option.  I realize we all have our own dreams of what our ideal car will be.  I just wanted to provide a different point of view as a long time original Z lover.  Just my thoughts.

 

Below are several of my 240Z threads for reference.  There may be some info there that is useful as a lot of the members have provided support and advice during the builds.

 

Best regards,

    Rich

1970 240Z

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/32197-1970-z-refreshbiting-the-bullet/#comment-286693

 

1973 260Z: Kicking myself daily for selling this one.

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/37331-1973-240z-refreshtoration-%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%80%9C-901-silver/?page=1

1971 240Z Yellow daily driver

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/35102-lets-paint-it-yellow/?page=1

1971 Z:  Current project

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/47865-lucky-71-240z/?page=1

[DaveR]

Well for the moment my goal is to get it back on the road and make sure there is nothing looming under the surface after having sat for so long. Some of the aftermarket components needed to do that (fuel pump, master cylinders, new fuel lines, brake cylinders, etc) were already installed recently so I figured I would see how that goes before I go rebuilding the originals (which can be done while the aftermarkets let the car be driveable) I still have them all.

Besides that, I am not moving too far too fast away from original.

It's also a bit difficult because unlike you guys, I am totally new to Z's. I haven't been looking at cookie cutter modified cars for 30 years and pine-ing for an untouched original.  For me, the body/interior condition was the most important and it just so happened to be that the rest was also very original. I do feel a bit bad removing an original specimen from the world, but I can only have one project car so it's gotta be one that is the way I want it. The value isn't really too important, since I don't plan to ever sell it.

That said, I am keeping everything so if one day you guys convince me, maybe i'll piece it back together.

[motorman7]

Yes, getting it back on the road is definitely a top priority.  Will be nice to see your car running again.  And definitely, save everything you remove.  

Best regards,

  Rich

PS:  I am a mech engineer also....though much older.  It definitely helps with the rebuilds.

[87mj]

Can anyone explain what that dark stain is on his driver side front strut tower inside the engine bay?  I have the same color car and the same stains.  It wont come off.