Wilwood Superlites pulling right and sometimes left

[chris b]

Thanks Chickenman Good feedback. My car is a dedicated race car that I trailer to and from the track and I will try some of the alternative you suggest.  I guess I have been so impressed with the stopping power after the Toyota 4 pot set up that I previously had, that I have not bothered trying alternatives.  

 

I also removed the stock proportioning valve and inserted the adjustable in the same location.  Once I had done some experimentation I lucked on a magnificent balance and have been reluctant to change anything since.

 

Really appreciate the level and quality of discussion and feed back!

 

Cheers Chris

[Chickenman]

What 6 piston calipers are you running Chris?

 

If you can get the Mintex FR series race pads I would highly recommend those for a trailored race car. . From personal experience the FR series are incredible. Better than even the PFC full race compounds. We ran the FR1's on a GTO Corvette that had close to 900hp and ran 180 MPH at Portland International Raceway. Incredible stopping power, easy to modulate, NEVER EVER any fade, yet very easy on rotors. The really amazing thing is they would stop very well even when cold. We found the Mintex pads to be superior to the PFC 003' at the time. A lot of the Nascar boys were running Mintex FR pads at that time on short track and Road Race setups. ( Mid 2000's )

 

I ran the FR1's on my 425HP Hillclimb Camaro ( 3,270lbs ) . We were worried about lack of pad temp into the first corner, but it proved to be no problem. I ran them on Track days as well and I could brake side by side with Porsche GT3's with my setup..... lap after lap after lap. My friend has a 620 HP Trans-Am that weighed 3,900 freakin' lbs. He ran the Mintex FR's as well with no issues on Tack Days and Hillclimbs. 

 

Performance friction Race pads are very good as well. As are Ferodo.

 

My 1986 Camaro setup. Front: WilWood Forged Superlites 4 piston with FR1 Mintex pads. Coleman 12.1" x 1.375" 48 vane rotors. Rear: GM 1LE 11.8" x 1" rotors with Forged Superlites 4 pot ( smaller pistons ) and FR2 pads.

 

1981 Trans-Am setup( 3,900 lbs ).  Front: WilWood 6 Piston Gen3 calipers ( huge calipers ) with WilWood 13" x 1.25 " 72 vane rotors with FR2 pads. Rear: GM 11.8" a 1" rotors with WilWood 4 pistont Forged Superlites with FR4 pads.

 

The FR1 was Mintex's extreme pad. FR2 to FR4 were for progressively lighter cars or less brake torque for rear brakes etc.

 

If you can find stock on the Mintex I'd certainly give them a go on your 240Z. Probably FR2's up front and either FR2 or Fr4 out back depending on how much rear brake you like.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Chickenman

[chris b]

Hi Chickenman

 

My brake set up is the Arizona Z 6 pot Wilwood Ultralites on the front with 12 inch rotor (not 13 as I indicated previously).

On the rear I have the Silvermine set up (modern Mustang rear caliper, works well but very heavy).

Under hood Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve.

 

My car obviously has no where near the grunt of the muscle cars you describe.  I mainly do 5 laps sprints and like to have the brakes up to temperature quickly.  

 

Our local circuit in WA has two heavy brake points but at Easter every year  I take my car across the country to Bathurst Australia's most challenging circuit.  It has 2 long straights.  Mountain straight going up with a 200 kph prior to braking uphill right hander and Conrod Straight coming off the mountain with a flat out right hander 7000 rpm in fifth then a hard off camber left hander in the Chase.  Skyline across the top of the mountain is interesting where the brake point at about 150 kph is at the point where the road drops below the immediate horizon. All require huge confidence in your braking capacity (huge kahunas would also help).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Panorama_Circuit

 

The Mintex set up sounds good as I assume that the F4 on the rear would make the rears more aggressive and effective earlier. 

Edited December 18, 2015 by chris b

[z boy mn]

Chickenman, thanks for the photo...I thought it would be under the car in the back somewhere somewhere. And, now I'm a bit worried as I think this stock "control" valve might still be under the hood. I certainly don't need it AND the Wilwood proportioning valve in the cabin I don't think. I'll have to run home and check...interesting. I'm hoping if it is there, there's an easy way to eliminate it without causing all kinds of leaks, etc. Has anyone done that and have a photo? I'll see what's under the hood tonight!

Edited December 18, 2015 by z boy mn

[Chickenman]

It's real easy to eliminate. Use a brass union ( Metric thread of course ) to couple the two rear lines together and a Brass Tee to join the three front lines together. The hardest part is finding a brass tee fitting with the proper Metric threads. But they are available. ,

[Zed Head]

1971 has the proportioning valve in the back.  Later cars have it up front.  The thing in Chickenman's Post 24 is  the warning light switch.  John Coffey says that they get stuck sometimes.  But it doesn't meter pressure or flow, it just shows when there's a an imbalance.  All described in the manuals.

[Zed Head]

It's been proposed that the warning light switch might have some sort of protective block-off function, and I used to have that in mind for a while but you can see that if that was so you'd never be able to bleed the brakes once the switch moved over.  It does stop moving mechanically to allow the "good" side to build pressure.  The "fix" for the switch when the light goes on is to bleed the brakes to get the pressure balance back.

[Chickenman]

Hi Chickenman

 

My brake set up is the Arizona Z 6 pot Wilwood Ultralites on the front with 12 inch rotor (not 13 as I indicated previously).

On the rear I have the Silvermine set up (modern Mustang rear caliper, works well but very heavy).

Under hood Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve.

 

My car obviously has no where near the grunt of the muscle cars you describe.  I mainly do 5 laps sprints and like to have the brakes up to temperature quickly.  

 

Our local circuit in WA has two heavy brake points but at Easter every year  I take my car across the country to Bathurst Australia's most challenging circuit.  It has 2 long straights.  Mountain straight going up with a 200 kph prior to braking uphill right hander and Conrod Straight coming off the mountain with a flat out right hander 7000 rpm in fifth then a hard off camber left hander in the Chase.  Skyline across the top of the mountain is interesting where the brake point at about 150 kph is at the point where the road drops below the immediate horizon. All require huge confidence in your braking capacity (huge kahunas would also help).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Panorama_Circuit

 

The Mintex set up sounds good as I assume that the F4 on the rear would make the rears more aggressive and effective earlier. 

Mount Panorama... you lucky Dawg!! The Bathurst 1000 is on my bucket list. Hopefully I can make it out next year. Lots of fans of Aussie V8 Super Cars in my area.

 

The FR4's are actually less aggressive than the FR1's or FR2's, but they do come in sooner. For Track Days and Road racing it's not a problem, but for Hillclimbs it can be a bit of a balance issue as the fronts take longer to get up to temp. Hillclimbs are really difficult to get the brake balance right...

[Chickenman]

1971 has the proportioning valve in the back.  Later cars have it up front.  The thing in Chickenman's Post 24 is  the warning light switch.  John Coffey says that they get stuck sometimes.  But it doesn't meter pressure or flow, it just shows when there's a an imbalance.  All described in the manuals.

You are indeed correct. My bad. ( I've edited post #24 ).

 

The Brake warning valve can probably be left in place.

 

Up to June 1972 has the proportioning valve in the rear. This has to be removed and replaced with a straight union. Item #6 in picture:

 

Edited December 18, 2015 by Chickenman

[Chickenman]

July 1972 onwards has the proportioning valve on the Firewall. #6 in diagram. #21 is brake warning lamp on 7/72 and later models:

 

[z boy mn]

Thanks for the update, everyone, though I'm more confused than ever in some ways. No doubt it's a 1971 model, made in 12/70, but it's had a lot of work done including the Wilwood brake upgrade. So, my plan is to take photos of both places and post them here this weekend to make sure I know what I'm looking at and what needs to get replaced if anything. For example, do I need a brake warning light switch? All the gauges have been replaced, so I'm not sure what it would go to or what would light up if the switch triggered something. Seems like extra hardware. I'll take photos of what I find inside the hood and in the rear and see what you all think. Glad to hear that things are simpller to eliminate than I first thought, though, if that's what needs to be done in the end.

[z boy mn]

OK...so, I took some photos last night and here's what I have. I think it looks like I have the warning light switch and no proportioning valve, but I'd like to confirm.

 

For the record, there is no valve assembly on the firewall and the line headed to the rear stops in the cabin at the Wilwood proportioning valve and then continues back to the "splitter" in front of the spare tire well.

 

I think I can see where maybe there was another valve there...so maybe that was where the proportioning valve used to be. This looks like just a splitter to me, but let me know what you think!

Edited December 19, 2015 by z boy mn