280zx Distributor Upgrade (240z)

[CDL1542]

14 hours ago, Zed Head said:

"stroker" is irrelevant.  Unless you only want to talk to guys who have one. 

The ZX distributors have other weaknesses though.  Why do you think it's the module?  The stator magnets seem to break a lot, and they actually sell a replacement bushing for the dizzy shaft.

Well everything else in the system was good and I broke out the multimeter and the only thing that wasn't reading the same as when it worked is the matchbox so that's the only thing that makes sense to me.

[Zed Head]

 

hours ago, CDL1542 said:

Well everything else in the system was good and I broke out the multimeter and the only thing that wasn't reading the same as when it worked is the matchbox so that's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Makes sense.  Not many of us measure things that work, although we should.  I'm not aware of what you would measure on the "match box" though.  The modules are hard to diagnose without a tester.  There is a test procedure in the FSM's for the other parts of the system.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Zed Head

[CDL1542]

2 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

 

Makes sense.  Not many of us measure things that work, although we should.  I'm not aware of what you would measure on the "match box" though.  The modules are hard to diagnose without a tester.  There is a test procedure in the FSM's for the other parts of the system.

I ordered a REMAN one for just about 100 bucks. I have access to all the tools I need, however I never set timing before so will need to do some research on that. I understand it conceptually but the process is what eludes me. I was told the mechanical advance should be 34-36* BTDC @ 2,800 RPM. Idle timing should be in the 10-2* BTDC. Actually doing this will be an entirely new issue for me. Any recommendations?

[Zed Head]

4 minutes ago, CDL1542 said:

I ordered a REMAN one for just about 100 bucks. I have access to all the tools I need, however I never set timing before so will need to do some research on that. I understand it conceptually but the process is what eludes me. I was told the mechanical advance should be 34-36* BTDC @ 2,800 RPM. Idle timing should be in the 10-2* BTDC. Actually doing this will be an entirely new issue for me. Any recommendations?

Full open throttle high RPM advance is determined by initial + total centrifugal.  It's really a function of the distributor's parts.  Your question raises a point though - there are many timing advance variations described in the service manuals for various cars but one-distributor-fits-all at the parts stores.  You won't know what you have until get it and measure.

If you have a stock factory distributor and everything works right and is lubed up and not rusted and/or worn and you like it, you could just swap over the E12-80 module.  But a stock factory ZX distributor, or a reman, probably doesn't have the advance characteristics you really want for your performance engine.   The vacuum advance canister can be swapped over if you like the old one better.  But you'll need an idea of what's right for your engine.

Probably best to just install the new one, get the engine running and set initial timing to the factory idle setting.  Very easy to do with a timing light.  Then measure full vacuum and full centrifugal advance.  If you have a dial-back light, centrifugal is very easy.  There are some tricks you can use to measure if you just have a basic light.  Post up your numbers and let people advise you on what's best for that engine.  Ignition timing is a whole separate world to play around in.

The basic idea of setting timing is to run the engine at idle speed and turn the distributor (with a loose clamping bolt), to advance or retard timing until the marks line up where you want them, on the damper pulley and timing tab.  Tighten the clamp and you're done.

[CDL1542]

When I say I'm new to timing, I mean very very green. My Z is my first project car (and almost finished at that).

I've read multiple threads, watched plenty of videos of V8 distributor installs and understand the basic theory about timing but Is there any chance I can convince someone out there to explain it step by step for me from installing the distributor and so forth? The whole car is a learning experience in a way for me and the timing aspect is something entirely out of my range to tackle blindly (and I really don't want to destroy the engine in the process). I'm still trying to find a step by step approach to it from how I need to have the engine set (I'm guessing TDC) to bolt in the distributor and where it should roughly line up to setting timing from there. I'm probably going to get a bit of flack for this but everyone needs to learn eventually... is anyone able to break this down like you would to a kid? There's just some things that I don't get and this is a big one.

[Zed Head]

This atlanticz writeup shows how the distributor is designed to fit only one way.  Since you're just doing a swap of identical distributors you only need to look at a few pictures.  The rest doesn't matter.  Once you get the new one installed, timing is easy.  If you don't have a timing light, consider buying a dial-back light.  You'll be able to quantify full centrifugal advance.  http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/distributor/index.html

Best to break your project in to its pieces - install new distributor, set initial timing, characterize new distributor, modify new distributor.  Where'd you get the reman?

Just looked back through your thread though, and see that you never reported the engine running after the initial ZX dist. swap.  So, overall, it's not really clear where you're at.  You might summarize what's happened since Post #1.  You might be working on the wrong thing.

[siteunseen]

It confuses me still but somehow it works out?  Here's some stuff off Blue's Tech Tips that may help.  There's electrical and mechanical.  I do the mechanical line up first then put a light on the pulley and adjust to at least 10 degrees, mine runs better between 12 and 15.  Something that'll really help is to mark all the notches with white-out or some kind of paint.  Another thing, those remanufactured distributors are bare bones, no cap or button and the ZX's are bigger plus you should regap the plugs to ZX specs, can't remember off the top of my head, .46????

Mechanical, initial set up,  http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/timing/mechtime.html

When you get all that done, crank it up and turn the distributor until the pulley mark lines up with the 10 when the light flashes.  If you have the 240 pulley, the one to the far left looking from the front is 0, next is 5, third one is 10 etc.  Those are the ones that need paint.

It's confusing!  I'm not a good explainer either, sorry.  My Dad never uses a light, he turns the distributor until the valve train is the smoothest sounding then backs up a tad.  But he's a Chevy man.

 

                                                       

 

 

 

[Zed Head]

The distributor pulls out very easily.  Things will make sense once you have the new one, or if you pull the old one before hand.  Still curious about what the real issue is.  If you're new to engines, it's easy to break or mis-adjust one thing while you're focusing on another.

But we all get the urge to DIY.  Get back with details if you want some specific advice.

[CDL1542]

I pulled the old one and now understand what you mean by "it only goes in one way" being keyed the way it is. I thought it could be turned 180* out accidentally depending on the position of it but I see that I am wrong here. I got the reman unit ordered through a local shop. It was about 100 bucks overall so I can't really complain about the price and I should have it tomorrow.

To clarify a few things, I DID have the engine running after the swap. I had to pull and rejet the carbs and it ran but then the distributor went. I ran through the entire system beforehand and it was fine. The issue I ran into was that I was unable to get the original 240z tachometer to work with the ZX distributor (that is still an issue at the moment). Yes, I have read Blue's article on AtlanticZ, yes I followed the correct diagram for the 240z, no that did not work! Blue's article is geared towards a later Z's electrical system but does have an earlier Z to ZX swap. This is the diagram I followed, its very simple. Yes my tach worked prior to the swap:

 

[siteunseen]

Hopefully the new distributor will work the tach? That's the same diagram I followed and mine works fine. I think the only difference would be the plug I cut off a junkyard zx when I got the different mount you have to use.

[Zed Head]

On the tach problem - it looks like you're using the stock 240Z coil, by your first post picture.  And bypassing the ballast resistor.  I'm not sure what the resistance of the early "6 volt" coils are but maybe you're passing too little or too much current.  Ignition modules tend to pass too little when they go bad so there's hope that the new one will get everything working together.  But, not sure that's the best coil for the application in the long run.  A 1978 280Z coil would look similar but be designed for a high energy module.  The Crane coil works well too, of course.  The electronic modules are designed around certain coil characteristics.  Maybe get the ignition system where you want it then worry about the tach.  

Also, "doesn't work" doesn't offer many clues.  Totally dead or twitching or just acting weird?

[CDL1542]

14 hours ago, Zed Head said:

On the tach problem - it looks like you're using the stock 240Z coil, by your first post picture.  And bypassing the ballast resistor.  I'm not sure what the resistance of the early "6 volt" coils are but maybe you're passing too little or too much current.  Ignition modules tend to pass too little when they go bad so there's hope that the new one will get everything working together.  But, not sure that's the best coil for the application in the long run.  A 1978 280Z coil would look similar but be designed for a high energy module.  The Crane coil works well too, of course.  The electronic modules are designed around certain coil characteristics.  Maybe get the ignition system where you want it then worry about the tach.  

Also, "doesn't work" doesn't offer many clues.  Totally dead or twitching or just acting weird?

The coil is a pertronix coil. I tried with both a 1.5 ohm and a 3.0 ohm coil and it didn't do it. I believe that the crane coil is limited to 6500 rpm and some guys recommend the MSD blaster2 coil. And by doesn't work, I mean that it doesn't even twitch, zero movement!