New owner of '77 280z from Upstate SC

[the_tool_man]

Got back from the UK last night, ready to resume on the car. Walked to the shop to find a tree had blown over. Backed the car out and pulled the wheels. Took the wheels to a tire place for new tires. Started the car to drive it back into the shop, and noticed that now the tach is inop. One step forward, two steps back.

Gotta deal with the tree. Then I'll pressure/flow test the fuel pump.

Edited February 27, 2016 by the_tool_man

[the_tool_man]

Started pressure testing. Fuel pump builds pressure to 60psi and holds with fuel line clamped downstream of pressure gauge. Pump and check valve should be good. With no clamp, it builds to 40psi while the pump runs, but drops to zero within a few seconds of the pump stopping. Because of the rapid pressure drop, I can't pressure test the FPR without a helper. I did pull the vacuum line to check the diaphram. No leaks there. So I'll just replace it with a new one. Is there a shortcut to getting the fuel lines off it without disassembling half the fuel rail? What a pain.

[EuroDat]

Wow, at least the tree didn't fall on the house,  car or someone.

Sounds like your pump is in good condition. Getting the FPR out on an early 280Z is a pita. I lifted my injectors the check the flow and then it was easy to remove the fpr. I wanted to replace the hoses. I think that is one of the reasons for changing the design of the fuel rail and the FPR in the later models.

You can clamp the return line from the FPR shut and run the pump until presure builds up. If it leaks down than its your injectors or CSV since you now know the pump check valve and FPR diaphragm are good. Its looking more like the FPR is your problem.

[Zed Head]

I would do Euro's test first to be sure, but if you need to replace it don't try to save the hose.  Just cut the hose, remove the FPR, then cut the remaining pieces of hose lengthwise to remove them from the rail.  Many small cuts, deeper and deeper until it breaks free is the way.  Don't gouge the metal.  Then when you reinstall, slide the hose on first (hose cut to proper length) and well down the rail.  Insert the FPR then slide the hose back over to the FPR.  Don't even fiddle with bending hose or fuel rail or trying to pry or squeeze anything in to a tight spot.  Use WD-40 or your favorite spray lube.

I farted around with trying to save the hose when removing filters and fuel rails and FPR's but the cost/benefit ratio is way shifted toward just cut it and put on new hose.

[the_tool_man]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 10:48 PM, Zed Head said:

Just cut the hose, remove the FPR, then cut the remaining pieces of hose lengthwise to remove them from the rail.  Many small cuts, deeper and deeper until it breaks free is the way.  Don't gouge the metal.

I agree on not saving the hose.  But rather than risk nicking a hard line, I typically use a right-angle pick to get under the hose.  I work it around the circumference, twisting on the hose a bit, until it releases from the line.  Much less risky that way.

From what I can tell, the only way to get the FPR out is to remove half the fuel rail.  I can't figure out how the short hoses to the injectors are connected.  There are no clamps on the injectors ends of them.  So rather than cut those hoses, I'm probably just going to remove the injectors.  And since I'm doing that, I might as well pull the whole thing apart, and bench test all of the injectors <sigh>.  So, now I have questions:

• What size fuel hose do I need for all these little pieces?  I'm guessing 1/4 inch.  It's definitely smaller than the 5/16 inch used elsewhere.  I'd rather have it in hand before I start pulling things apart.  So taking a piece to match up isn't my first choice.
• Where can I get replacement OEM style hose clamps?  They seem a little flimsy.  I suspect I'll break one or two in this endeavor.  I'm considering switching to modern spring clamps, because they are easier if you have the special tool (which I have), and they maintain clamping even if the rubber hose shrinks.  But part of me wants to keep it original, so I'm investigating my options.
• Does anyone have a photo showing how to detach the old-style injector electrical connectors?  The CSV connector had the wire, which was easy.  But the other six are like the AFM, with no wire.  I have replacement connectors, in case I break one.  But I'd really rather not have to replace them right now, if the contacts are clean.
• Euro, you referred to this as "early 280z".  Is there a later OEM version of this fuel rail that is easier?
• Is there an aftermarket fuel rail option that is more like later model cars, where the injectors fit into a solid rail with O-rings?  This would be a long-range solution I'd look into. EDIT - I found the posts about the Pallnet rail.  So never mind.
• Lastly, it occurs to me that with all this pressure testing without running the engine, if my injectors are leaking, I've been dripping fuel into the cylinders.  How likely is it that I need to pull the plugs and hand turn the engine to make sure I won't hydro-lock it when I go to crank it?  I'm starting to worry that I'm going to make things much, much worse if I'm not careful.

Thank you for all the help.

Edited February 29, 2016 by the_tool_man

[siteunseen]

A small flat tipped screwdriver will pry the injector's clip up enough to slide the connector off, at about a 1/4" up it pop into the next indent and stay.  Then the connectors will slide off.  Squirt some dielectric grease into the connectors before you put them back on.

The OE band hose clamps are stainless is the reason most people try to reuse them, they're better for high pressure too.

As far as dripping fuel on top of the cylinders, I would take the plugs out and let it evaporate and maybe spin it over to to get the rest off the tops.

All the fuel hose on my '77 280 is 5/16" high pressure line.

I think it's easier to take the whole assembly off as to just get the fpr if it's an earlier style, the later 280's only have one inlet on the side and another outlet on the bottom to the return.  The older ones have two inlets on the sides, PITA.

I made my own fuel rail but they're is a guy that makes them, search google for "pallnet fuel rails".  I just copied his but I have a drill press and the taps needed so I had to buy the aluminum rail stock off ebay and the barbs, cost me $50.

Look at Blue's tech tips for some pictures on fuel injectors, http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/EFI&fuel.htm

[EuroDat]

1 hour ago, the_tool_man said:

So, now I have questions:

• What size fuel hose do I need for all these little pieces?  I'm guessing 1/4 inch.  It's definitely smaller than the 5/16 inch used elsewhere.  I'd rather have it in hand before I start pulling things apart.  So taking a piece to match up isn't my first choice.
• Where can I get replacement OEM style hose clamps?  They seem a little flimsy.  I suspect I'll break one or two in this endeavor.  I'm considering switching to modern spring clamps, because they are easier if you have the special tool (which I have), and they maintain clamping even if the rubber hose shrinks.  But part of me wants to keep it original, so I'm investigating my options.
• Does anyone have a photo showing how to detach the old-style injector electrical connectors?  The CSV connector had the wire, which was easy.  But the other six are like the AFM, with no wire.  I have replacement connectors, in case I break one.  But I'd really rather not have to replace them right now, if the contacts are clean.
• Euro, you referred to this as "early 280z".  Is there a later OEM version of this fuel rail that is easier?
• Is there an aftermarket fuel rail option that is more like later model cars, where the injectors fit into a solid rail with O-rings?  This would be a long-range solution I'd look into. EDIT - I found the posts about the Pallnet rail.  So never mind.
• Lastly, it occurs to me that with all this pressure testing without running the engine, if my injectors are leaking, I've been dripping fuel into the cylinders.  How likely is it that I need to pull the plugs and hand turn the engine to make sure I won't hydro-lock it when I go to crank it?  I'm starting to worry that I'm going to make things much, much worse if I'm not careful.

Thank you for all the help.

1. I used 8MM fuel hose which is 5/16" imperial. Make sure its suitable for high pressure (at least 100psi) fuel injection systems.

2. The PO replaced my clamps with worm clamps. Bad choice, they cut into the hose and make a mess of it. I ended up with after market "like" OEM size 13mm. See last photo.

3. Straighten a paperclip of something similar and make a hook to get behind the end of the clip. Them you can pull it out. See second photo.

4. The early type FPR is inline with the rail. Its almost impossible to fit without removing the rail. I couldn't get it in anyway. There is only 2-3 mm room betwwen the end of the rail tube and the FPR. The later type only has one inlet and is not inline so you can dismantle it easier. See first photo

5. See siteunseens post.

6. If you complete all the tests, you will know if the injectors are leaking and then you should remove the plugs and turn it over to clear the excess fuel. I lifted my injectors with the rail to see which injectors were leaking and do a VERY simple run test by cranking the starter motor to see which ones were blocked. See last photo.

[the_tool_man]

I learned (the hard way - getting carb hose home and reading the "Not for Fuel Injection" printed on it) about the difference between carb hose and EFI hose.  I'm using EFI hose, even for testing.

On the injector connectors, mine must be different from everyone else's.  They don't have a wire at all.  See pic.  Again, my CSV has the wire, and will come off with the wire removed.  But these won't budge.  Sorry for being paranoid about breaking one.  But mine look like the two opposing sided need to be pried outward to clear the green tabs before sliding off.

Good point about testing the injectors in place.  I'll try that.  Soaking the retaining screws now, as they're frozen in place.

Siteunseen, I love that fuel rail.  It really cleans things up.  Hmm... this could be dangerous.  Must get running first. Must get running first. Must get running first.

[EuroDat]

You have a clip. Its just a little hard to see with the oxidation on it. I circled it on your photo.

The end of the clip you be hard to get to on the injectors because it will be next to the yellow hose cap.

Another alternative way to remove them is to use a fine pointy tool like an o-ring pick to pry the clip out on the side where I have the arrow. If you wiggle the connector and use the pick you will get it in behind the clip.

Takes a bit of practice, but to will work it out. Try a clip like the TPS or CSV, They are easier to work with.

 

[Zed Head]

Here's a link to what the injector clips look like.  You can see it in your picture.  They used a different style for some reason, even more difficult to remove, in the hardest spot to get to.  Your right angle pick will work, or a small screwdriver.  Pry the tip out, lift one side to keep it there, then pry the other side out and remove the connector.  Or you can pry it out then stick a striaght pick underneath to hold it.  Or get mad and just tear it off, the old plastic will shatter like glass.  Replace with GM, Audi, BMW or Volvo spring-clip EV1 connectors.  Mid-90's era cars used them, some still do.

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/11-3410

Here's a bulky style.  The GM and BMW models are very streamlined.

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/11-3059

[EuroDat]

A technique to help get the screws out. Hold the screwdriver firmly in the screw and tap the back of the screwdriver with a hammer while trying to unscrew it. That gennerly jars them loose.

[Zed Head]

I knew that we'd end up in the same time frame.  I even waited.

Chas showed also his method for testing injector flow, but didn't detail it.  You can short the injector circuits at the ECU connector to get full flow for a short period of time.  You can see in his picture that his were unbalanced.  You might try that before anything.  You'll probably end up replacing all of your injectors.  That's how things usually go.

There's a procedure in the Engine Fuel chapter for replacing injector hose.  IT's just pressed over a barb, no hose clamp.  If you find that your injectors are fine, you'll probably find  that the hose isn't .  It will be cracked if you look at the internal portion, end-on.  Little streamers of gas come out eventually.