Battery not charging with new 60A internal regulator alternator

[SurferD]

I bought it from MSA but I don't know who their supplier is. I just talked to them and since I took it apart they won't send me another. So I'll just get another diode and fix it myself. I know I have more work to do but at least it's progress.

Thanks again to everyone!

Edited March 9, 2016 by SurferD

[Zs-ondabrain]

3 hours ago, SurferD said:

I bought it from MSA but I don't know who their supplier is. I just talked to them and since I took it apart they won't send me another. So I'll just get another diode and fix it myself. I know I have more work to do but at least it's progress.

Thanks again to everyone!

I'm the guy that makes the ZXP or Alternator adapter plug for MSA.
If you took the ZXP apart and found the diode to be bad, then I will replace it for you, free of charge. (IM for details)
The diode will fail in the event of a short and the other 2 leads are a simple jumper.

Without reading every post, I'll tell you what I know about the charging system in the Series 1 240Z, as I own one and based most of my upgrades on the series 1.

The W/B and Y wires in the T-plug go directly from the alternator to the VR plug. (VR = Voltage Regulator)
The solid white on the VR plug ties into the white starter wire.
The black is a ground
The B/W is an ignition wire on the VR plug

The white/Red goes from the alternator to the Ammeter, then from the other post on the ammeter to the fuse box, where it ties into the White battery wire that goes out to the starter. There should be a Black? fusible link from the white wire to the starter bolt. I think the series 1 is also supposed to have another fusible link between the alternator and the White/Red wire. 

Sounds like your plastic insulator on your ammeter finally overheated and failed, causing a direct to metal short, which would explain your smoke issue.
Replace the Ammeter, fix any melted wires and finally, Run an 8 gauge jumper wire from the Alternator output bolt, to the Starter power bolt. This will give your battery direct charging from the alternator and minimize the high amperage from flowing through the ammeter. Your ammeter will not show as much movement but your battery will charge better and you'll still have full battery voltage available at the fuse box.

I'd also suggest you upgrade your battery cables to no less than 4 gauge. Clean every connection at the battery and the ground wire that bolts to the fender, across from the starter.

Dave

[Zed Head]

That's a ton of good information.

A note for SurferD - if you don't have the test lead polarity right a diode will show as open.  So the MSA plug may or may not have been bad.  TBD, between you and Dave.

Regardless, I'd do what Dave recommends.

[Zs-ondabrain]

On the plus side, you can still use a 240Z ammeter (45 amp) when you use the 8ga jumper, as the amperage is diminished.
 
So test the white/black and the yellow wires between the VR and alternator to eliminate them as a problem.
Flip your fuse box over and inspect the underside to make sure the 2 large gauge wires (white and white/red) are still attached good and unmelted. Inspect the connections of those 2 into the dash harness and at the ammeter. Also check the passenger side upper kick area to make sure the White/red and the solid white as well as the solid black ground wire are all still good, connected tightly and not melted.

Using the 8ga jumper will minimize the (+) and (-) movement of the ammeter when the lights and heater are turned on. Sodon't freak out, thinking it's broken. It's not.
Dave

[beermanpete]

Good job finding the diode problem. Too bad it still has a problem. Zs-ondabrain's suggestion to check the fuse box connections is on target with the symptoms reported. You have an open circuit between the alternator output and the battery. Be sure to check the large multi-pin connector in the passenger foot well where the engine room harness connects to the instrument panel harness. The white and white/red wires the charging system pass through this connector and the terminals could be dirty, corroded. overheated, etc. If I recall correctly, there are two single pin connectors in the ammeter circuit, one for the white wire and one for the white/red. Check these as well if you have not removed them as part of your ammeter bypass.

[SurferD]

On March 10, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Zed Head said:

That's a ton of good information.

A note for SurferD - if you don't have the test lead polarity right a diode will show as open.  So the MSA plug may or may not have been bad.  TBD, between you and Dave.

Regardless, I'd do what Dave recommends.

I tried it both ways.

 

[SurferD]

On March 10, 2016 at 10:39 PM, Zs-ondabrain said:

I'm the guy that makes the ZXP or Alternator adapter plug for MSA.
If you took the ZXP apart and found the diode to be bad, then I will replace it for you, free of charge. (IM for details)
The diode will fail in the event of a short and the other 2 leads are a simple jumper.

Without reading every post, I'll tell you what I know about the charging system in the Series 1 240Z, as I own one and based most of my upgrades on the series 1.

The W/B and Y wires in the T-plug go directly from the alternator to the VR plug. (VR = Voltage Regulator)
The solid white on the VR plug ties into the white starter wire.
The black is a ground
The B/W is an ignition wire on the VR plug

The white/Red goes from the alternator to the Ammeter, then from the other post on the ammeter to the fuse box, where it ties into the White battery wire that goes out to the starter. There should be a Black? fusible link from the white wire to the starter bolt. I think the series 1 is also supposed to have another fusible link between the alternator and the White/Red wire. 

Sounds like your plastic insulator on your ammeter finally overheated and failed, causing a direct to metal short, which would explain your smoke issue.
Replace the Ammeter, fix any melted wires and finally, Run an 8 gauge jumper wire from the Alternator output bolt, to the Starter power bolt. This will give your battery direct charging from the alternator and minimize the high amperage from flowing through the ammeter. Your ammeter will not show as much movement but your battery will charge better and you'll still have full battery voltage available at the fuse box.

I'd also suggest you upgrade your battery cables to no less than 4 gauge. Clean every connection at the battery and the ground wire that bolts to the fender, across from the starter.

Dave

Thanks Dave that's the info that I was searching for. Where were you about 20 posts ago!? 

I bought a 1N5402 diode and was going to repair it but hey I'l take a new one. and save myself the trouble?

What's the number of the one you use?

I will do all your suggestions over the weekend.

[Zs-ondabrain]

Your new ZXP is on it's way.

Dave

[SurferD]

Thanks! I modified the plug with a 1N5402 diode which is a lot bigger. I ran a 8awg wire from the alt output B to the starter stud. I now have 14.5v at the battery when running. I don't have an extra ammeter so I'll just leave it bypassed. I'm still baffled at something else. If the white from ammeter goes to the fuse panel then why don't I have a starter circuit fuse? I have the MSA replacement panel that uses modern blade fuses but as I said I took them all out and the car kept running. 

Edited March 13, 2016 by SurferD

[Zs-ondabrain]

The Diode is what keeps the alternator from back feeding to the ignition, and allows you to shut the car off.

If your diode was bad, or installed backwards, then the car won't shut off.

and 14.5 is perfect.
Dave

[SurferD]

One more thing after driving it for a while, I now have a accessory belt squeal and I can smell the rubber burning from friction.  It doesn't happen all the time. The belt is new and I have it adjusted to the correct tension. Could the alternator be resisting spinning?

[Patcon]

It is my understanding, the more current you pull the harder they are to turn...