Who copied who?

[g260]

Went to the Sydney Ferrari club drive day at Wakefield Park about 200km from Sydney last Sunday and amongst other cars there was a 365 Daytona. The similarity in shape with the Z is amazing. Those Italians are very good at copying!!

At least I had the right number which made some of the Ferrari drivers envious.

g260

http://www.wakefieldpark.com/site/frameset.cfm

[Alfadog]

Similar in photos like that yeah, but I wouldn't say the Daytona is a copy of the Z really. I mean yes it has the classic coupe's basic sillhouette, but that's pretty generic for the time anyway.

Similar yes, but I wouldn't go so far as to say Pininfarina COPIED Nissan designers.

[g260]

Alfa,

Actually I was only being tongue in cheek! The Daytona is a beuatiful car and representative of its time. I was just intrigued by the similarity in shape but that was where the comparison finished.

Cheers,

g260

[HS30-H]

The 365 Daytona debuted at the Paris Motor Show in late 1968 - so Pininfarina would have had to have had a man on the 'inside' at Nissan if they had copied the S30-series Z.............

Yoshihiko Matsuo has mentioned in interviews that he was a big fan of many products of the big Italian styling houses ( aren't we all?! ) during the Sixties. If you look at the Ferrari 275 you can see a lot of cues for cars such as the S30-series Z and indeed lots of other stuff, and its clear that Matsuo and his team would have been influenced by cars such as these. In fact I think Matsuo has namechecked the 275 as an influence on his taste, and he only got the chance to go further with this when the ZG debuted in late '71.

I think its probably fair to say that almost ALL automotive designers and stylists would have been looking towards Italy during this period, and would have been influenced by what they saw. I don't know how far the Italian houses were influenced by what they themselves saw in other designs from other countries - but I'd have to say it was probably pretty peripheral ( try saying that while you are eating............... ).

Japanese manufacturers were naturally looking to Italy, as the acknowledged masters of automotive styling cool, right from the mid-Fifties. Indeed, by the late-Fifties Prince had already paid for design consultants from Italian styling houses to help them with the Skyline range.

I doubt if Matsuo and his team would have seen what the 365 looked like until at least early to mid '68 - and by that time the S30-series Z was already looking pretty much as it was going to look at launch.

More a case of great minds thinking alike than copying I would have thought...........

Alan T.

[g260]

Alan,

I agree entirely with your comments. It was only my warped sense of humour getting out of control. I will try and be more serious.

I must say that I greatly enjoy your dissertations on the history of the Z car.

Regards,

Geoff

[HS30-H]

Geoff,

I really like posts like yours. That's what made me take the bait!

I too have permanently got my tongue planted firmly in my cheek. My dry and boring style of writing probably doesn't quite get this across. Maybe I should use more Smilies.

Keep 'em coming..................

Alan T.

[2ManyZs]

Kinda makes you wonder who or what they are copying now doesn't it?:cross-eye :tapemouth

I guess the AMC Pacer might have been a little ahead of its time after all, nearly everything now is rounded and without character....:stupid:

[EScanlon]

Geeeeeezzzzz!!

I can't believe you guys! The Ferrari!? HAH!!!!

How about the Jaguar XKE?

THAT is the true car to have influenced the Z.

Gosh, Alan, how could you have missed it?

grumble, grumble.........

[EScanlon]

Here's a pic that doesn't do the Jag justice, but should suffice to support my point.

(By the way, "EDIT' won't allow you to upload a picture after being bombed out by the program because the picture is too big, and last I checked 454Kb is LOTS smaller than 1048576 bytes.....grumble grumble.....)

[HS30-H]

Hi Enrique,

Hmmmm, that's a good point - but your picture was of a really late E-Type ( Series 3 or later? ) and that was styled a fair time after Matsuo and his team would have been doing the S30.

Matsuo has name-checked the E-Type as a reference-point in the design process ( in fact Nissan bought or otherwise borrowed one for the design team to have a look over didn't they? ) - but that would have been either a Series 1 or 2.

I always thought the Series 1 coupe was the best ( I always choose coupes over open cars ), and the rest were pretty ugly............... especially the 2+2 version.

I like the ( partially obscured ) caption on the photo, by the way!

I think the Ferraris ( 275 / 365 et al ) look closer to the S30 design in the end.

Good point by 2ManyZs too. I have no idea what they are putting in the tea at the Nissan Design HQ canteen - but its sure making things come out looking a bit less exciting than they used to.....

Alan T.

[Alfadog]

I blame renault!

And I dislike how it seems that no car company from other countries around the world are ever accused of copying, but Japanese makes seem to be always given flack about having designs that look similar to other cars.

I like to call the Z a unique design by itself. Sure it was inspired by a few other cars, but ALL cars are intentionally or unintentionally inspired by something.

It's racism I tell you!

[SHOTIME]

From the A pillar back it looks like the Ferarri, forward it looks like a Jag.