original 240Z for sale

[Mike]

Hi guys,

I sent this to our 240z Mailing List and here's something I received from Carl Beck. IMHO, he is one of the top professionals when it comes to Z's.

--------- Forward ----------

Oops... Sorry - now that I read the entire thread.. I see that he's

(someone) is asking $13K for the car.

Given it's current condition - IMHO that's about twice it's present value.

The car is more properly described as "un-restored" or

"un-molested"... it's FAR from being in "original" condition. In its

"original" condition everything was NEW and road ready - warranted

for 12 months and/or 12,000.00.

You can find/buy far nicer 240-Z's for $13K. Z's that don't need a

bit of work and are ready to take to a car show or drive across

America now. They may not be #1 Concours Winning Examples ... but

they well be in far better over-all condition.

Low mileage aside for a minute - that car would need a complete

restoration to ever look like a car with 9K miles. Just to get it

back on the street and drive'able you'd be looking at serious work

and serious money.

Having seen a couple very low mileage Z's sold in this past year -

when they are left sitting, neglected all most every system in the

car needs to be completely re-done. Fuel lines, carb.'s, ignition

system, brakes, hoses, belts, the entire cooling system including the

radiator and heater core... The paint is most likely shot from not

being polished/waxed and protected (yes, even in storage dirt takes

it toll on the older acrylic enamels). Transmission seals, rear-end

seals, front and rear main bearing seals are all dried out and most

likely rotten because they have not had oil applied to them for years

and years..

With dents in the body, dents in the bumpers - the only way to bring

this car back to it full value - would be to disassemble it and start

over. In that case you could plan on spending in excess of $12K and

you could plan on spending in excess of a year or two of weekends

taking it apart and putting it all back together..

My point of all this is that super low mileage is only ONE thing -

it's not the only thing to consider when your looking at a 30 year

old car...

Dan Banks is writing an article for Sport Z Magazine for some future

issue - that talks about this - People pay way too much for "low

mileage" when the car is really in worse than high mileage condition.

Regardless of the mileage on the odometer - this car has been badly

neglected for many many years and it will take a lot of time and

money to get it back on the road..

Just my opinion - and I'll hope the owner finds someone that would

have both the desire and the money to pay his asking price - but I

wouldn't want to build the false hope that would happen.

More than likely the "teenager" found that he couldn't get the car

financed, let alone insured. It will take a buyer with CASH to buy

the car....

FWIW,

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater,FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[tibZ]

Just appeared on E-bay.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2410404146&category=6187

I believe this will fetch 13K easily. Unfortunatly, well past my budget. I live in the northeast,USA, the last time a car like that was around here was 1973! (summer)

[S30TRBO]

Originally posted by Mike

Hi guys,

I sent this to our 240z Mailing List and here's something I received from Carl Beck. IMHO, he is one of the top professionals when it comes to Z's.

"Dan Banks is writing an article for Sport Z Magazine for some future issue - that talks about this - People pay way too much for "low mileage" when the car is really in worse than high mileage condition"

Mike,

I know Dan from NOVA and MD Z Club, I believe he paid an arm and a leg for his '71 240Z $16K or more (According to Sports Z Mag). He brought his to Mike McGinnis over at Banzai Motorworks to have it completely gone over. This was just to get it up to par and he spent another $4-5K.

I've seen it in Mikes shop a few weeks ago and its now having the whole suspension rebuild and powder coated, probably another grand or two. Dan's Z is a low mileage Z as well but not a low as this one. So he is one to talk about that "people pay way too much" his situation is a great example. To each is own, if you have the bank account the possibilities are endless. Apparently he does. :classic:

I appreciate Carl Beck's insight, However, I don't agree with some things he says but his points are well taken. He has been around longer than me doing this.

Like I said I have some people serious and I hope for the owners sake that these potential buyers (someone) comes through.

People say this Z is the less desirable #1 the color and #2 the carbs but I don't believe every car guy or Z enthusiast feels this so this will be a gem in someones eyes not Carl Becks.

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by 240ztt

.....Unfortunately, the rear brakes where locked....

Front Brakes probably aren't any good either. They've subjected to the same dis-use.

Originally posted by 240ztt

........As I was told from the owner it was bought from Bob Tedd Datsun in Fairfax, Virginia it has been in the area all its life, and in storage all it's life......

Interesting that it has ALASKA License plates when it's been in VA "all it's life"

Originally posted by 240ztt

......If you’re wondering about the steering column, the ignition was replaced but the plastic was not put back on.....

If you mean the ignition "switch" has been replaced, I'd say "partially replaced" since it is hanging loose in the photo's. Hasn't even been connected to the Ignition Lock assembly, let alone the enclosure being un-installed.

.

Originally posted by 240ztt

..........This Z has 8728 original miles. It has no rust, no nothing. 30-year -old cars or Zs for this matter don't acquire anything in this condition. The interior is not even faded.

Well, this one does seem to have "acquired" dings, dents, locked brakes, broken ingition, and ALASKA plates while spending it's life in storage in the Virginia environs.

There is more than a little "FISH" to the story behind this car. It is pretty to the casual observer, but to turn it into a car that can be used, and/or possibly shown, the buyer will need deep pockets, and the patience of Jobe.

[daddz]

Carl,

The fish you're smelling is probably on the dinner table?:classic:

The owner in not wanting to disclose his true identity to a message board at this point has been working in Washington,D.C. as an elected official for the past 30 years---maybe that would explain the Alaskan plates?

Washington, D.C. being the strange city that it is often bears witness to this type of story; a person comes to work here and personal hobbies and interests take second place to the career or assignment at hand. It is not unheard of for cars to sit for years in parking garages in Washington. Last week an investment client of mine who works for the U.S. Senate told me of a 1956 Chevrolet Belair 4 door sedan that has been parked in such a garage since 1959! The car has only covered a little more than 6,000 miles since new! It may not be a desirable car to most people but there is a term in the classic car world known as "provenance", the definition of the word is as follows:

"the history of ownership of a valued object or work of art or literature"--Merriam Webster dictionary

This car definitely falls into the category defined by the word provenance as this car has a unique history that is as interesting as the car itself when judged from the perspective of who has owned it.

Unless 240Z's grow on trees in California or are spontaneously reformulating from FeO2 I suspect that attrition and entropy will continue to dimish the numbers of available Z cars that are worth coveting. If you want a usable classic that happens to be a Datsun Z then buy a cheap old 280Z and molest it to your hearts content.:devious:

As I recall from my meeting in Fairfax with Mr. Moore, the caretaker, the ignition assembly was disassembled so that the key wouldn't wear out the switch not to mention the acids from your skin coming in contact with the surface of the switch itself. As it sits the car can be started with a simple flathead screwdriver. The biggest problem in bringing the appearance of the car to its present state is the lack of dedication on the part of the caretaker and possibly the period of time it sat in a garage (1974-1990).

Anyways..your fish are probably cold now after reading this post?

[Mike]

Guys, I'm going to stop a flame war here. There are many good points made about this car. It is a good find, but, probably not the golden key. While it may be worth more money than your standard driveable 240z, it's not a $10,000 + car.

This might be different if the car was refreshed and gone through by a Z fanatic. Just the uncertainty of the history and the condition is enough to drive some of us into conversation based on assumptions.

I reccommend that someone looks at this car to see what potential it has got. A good starting point for someone with a wad of cash.

Did we ever get the VIN ?

-- Mike

PS: Keep the conversation talking about what we DO know and within the topic. Even I can run stray from this at times.

[Dtsnlvrs]

Every one needs to take a chill pill, esp. you ROB. I too have looked at this car, and I am not willing to spend 13K on it, that is because I do not have 13K. It is a very nice example of a survivor car, and the dings on it are no worse than your average car would get being parked at Wally World. True, every piece of rubber would need to be replaced, BUT nothing has to be done to the body in terms of rust removal, I will attest that there is absolutly NO rust on this car. This will make a great find for someone just not me. BTW I think the owner was duped by the "Caretaker" as the care was supposed to be started and ran every month and I don't think it has. 13K for the car and maybe a couple more to get it on the road. Polish the paint with a good product, coat with wax. God I wish I had 13k disposable right now.

[Dtsnlvrs]

The beauty of this car is that it does not need a resto, just normal car maintenance stuff. Last time I checked fuel hose was cheap, brake stuff is relatively cheap and a complete door and hatch seal kit goes for less than 300 bucks. Yes, if I had 13K disposable I would buy this car.

[St.stephen]

Def keep us informed of what this thing goes for. While I am not going to get involved in the 4 page debate on the value of this one, I am curious to see how much it goes for.

Good luck on the sale

[S30TRBO]

Originally posted by St.stephen

Def keep us informed of what this thing goes for. While I am not going to get involved in the 4 page debate on the value of this one, I am curious to see how much it goes for.

Good luck on the sale

Thanks, will do...

[daddz]

Professionals? I would first consider Mike McGinnis, owner of Banzai Motorworks a "professional". He has commented to me regarding this car however, I would refer any potential interested parties to contact him through his website at:

http://www.zzxdatsun.com/

To give you an idea regarding his background, Mike has been servicing Datsuns since 1970 and a few British makes since 1968. Mike has also campaigned a few cars in the past and understands the Z cars from both the restoration aspect as well as the maintenance/ upgrade aspect. I wouldn't recommend someone as a "professional" based on their ability to sell cars such as the Z when they were new and in the present being a defacto hobbyist.

This car seems to have generated alot of animated responses from all sides and maybe if we're lucky it will end up in the right hands. Given it's history and condition and it not having been painted a more desirable color at the factory it may or may not sell.

As seems to be case with this unusual post...let the games/flames begin :tapemouth

[St.stephen]

Far different scenario in the East, I'll bet.

oh bambi how right you are!!! Some of the basket cases I have had to "glue" back together are quite the projects