1971 HLS30-14938 "Lily" build

[Patcon]

I also used some SEM vinyl prep and some Satin black and recolored the rocker trim

[Patcon]

@grannyknot

@SteveJ

Did you all see the other two posts #791 & 792?

[SteveJ]

8 hours ago, Patcon said:

@grannyknot

@SteveJ

Did you all see the other two posts #791 & 792?

I went back and looked, but I didn't see any electrical circuits that were wrong. 😁

[grannyknot]

12 hours ago, Patcon said:

I have some questions about the hatch assembly.

I had thought about installing the glass in the hatch before putting it on the car, but now I'm thinking it might be easier to get the hatch on the car without the extra weight of the glass. That would mean installing the glass from inside the hatch space though

Also how do these mount? I may have answered my own question but wanted to be sure.

Either way, you need a second person. I've always found the rear glass is more difficult to install than the front and having the hatch attached to the car allows you to push the glass and seal down in the corners while the second person, lying on their back is inside working the cord/trimmer line. Preferably a young guy with a good back

 I think those clips are for the chrome finisher grill, I just double stick taped them down as the pins had broken off. The black plastic drain ducts had to be  glued with 2 part epoxy cement around the edges and then I inserted a spacer/wedge between the drain duct and the inside panel of the hatch to keep them in place, easier to do while the hatch is off. Also oversized screws rather than the M4's. My drain ducts were bowed a bit from the heat of the sun so had to flatten them on a belt sander to get good contact.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by grannyknot

[Patcon]

Good info, that's what I'm looking for!

Anyone else have any info?

[Namerow]

14 hours ago, Patcon said:

I looked on car part manual and they say there are M4 screws holding the vents onto the hatch, but that doesn't seem right...

Here's a photo that I took when I was getting my hatch vents ready for installation.  Self-explanatory, I hope... 

 

The factory gasketing for the plastic vent plenums was pooched, so I made replacements from soft, closed-cell foam (it's actually foam strip used for sill walls during building construction).  You need to use something that's pretty compliant, because you'll need a lot of 'squishability' (technical term) to be able to push the clip into place...

 

I used the same foam to create a new gasket for the interior trim panel...

 

During final installation, I used strips of wiring loom tape (non-adhesive) overlaid by a hotel key card to protect the paint as I was sliding the clip into place.  The key card is pulled free after the clip is in place.  Then the tape is pulled away (the section of tape immediately under the clip can be left in place -- no one will see it and the plastic push-pin will penetrate easily when  the chrome vent is pressed in place...

 

[Patcon]

@Namerow

What is the black plastic part in the second picture? Is that the remnants of the original black piece or something else?

[Namerow]

Yes.  It's Part No. 64/65 in the online parts diagram, labeled as 'Rubber - Base Bumper'.  It has a lip that fits into the top of what I call the plenum duct (Part 55 - 'Assy - Rear Duct Ventilator').  On both of my 'bumper' pieces, the lip had disintegrated with age.  I had to fabricate a repair lip for each bumper, so they probably look a little 'non-stock'.  You can just barely see the new lip in my #2 picture.  Here's what they looked like before I made the repairs...

 

Maybe these pieces were missing on your car?

[Patcon]

Ok, so now I'm a little confused...

No, I don't believe I have those but I did order these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275798283202

Edit:

Evidently Jim Frederick is the ebay seller

"My name is Jim Frederick and I live in Lutz, FL just outside Tampa. I am a 240z enthusiast and collector/restorer of low vin number 1969 production date cars. I have a 2400 sq ft a/c garage nicknamed Z Mecca that houses my collection of 240z cars."

I don't know that they will have the lip?

Also yours seem to have spring clips for accepting screws on them. How would screws be used?

I was thinking it went like this:

The plenum (#55) goes inside the hatch with the little accordion drains attached to the bottom of the hatch panel.

Then the gaskets #65 go between the plenum and the inside face of the upper hatch panel.

Then stainless clips get snapped over all three of these.

The lower face of the clip inside the plenum. The upper face on the outside painted surface of the hatch.

Then the decorative vents with barrel clips get snapped into the reproduction stainless clips

Is this correct or is there another step?

Edited December 4, 2023 by Patcon

[Namerow]

It looks to me like to aftermarket eBay pieces that you’ve bought have been incorrectly made.  They appear to have been stamped out of some type of rubber or foam sheet material.  That would make it easy to mistake them for gaskets.  In fact, the real OE pieces (called ‘bumpers’) are molded from plastic.  The plastic used has a bit of flexibility, but not much (probably made from PVC or Delrin, rather than from styrene).  Each bumper's shapes consist of an internal lip and an external flange.  The flange forms a shelf on which an actual gasket sits.  That gasket can be cut from squishy, closed-cell foam tape.

The purpose of the lip molded into the bumper is to make sure that all of the rain or wash water funnels down into the plenum chamber.  Without the lip, some of the water could find its way into the hatch cavity as it drips down through the vent, leading to premature rusting around the periphery of the hatch and/or around the hatch window frame.

The purpose of the gasket is to prevent rain/wash water from seeping into the seam between the top surface of the bumper flange and the unpainted underside of the outer hatch sheet metal.

As for the retainer clips, I made mine from scratch (there were no replacement pieces available at the time).  They may, then, look a bit different from the stainless clips that you bought.  However, I sized the holes in them specifically to accept and grip on the plastic pins that are molded onto the bottom of the chromed-plastic vent trim pieces.  There was/is no good way to use screws to hold the vent-gasket-bumper-plenum assembly together.  Unfortunately, the pin-into-clip securement strategy means that it will probably prove impossible to remove the chrome vent trim piece after the fact without breaking off the pins.

Here’s the correct assembly sequence:

The plenum (#55) goes inside the hatch with the little accordion drains attached to the bottom of the hatch panel.

Then the black plastic bumper piece sits on top of the plenum, with the lip pointed down into the plenum cavity.  It looks like the factory used sealant in the join between the bumper flange and the plenum flange.

Then the foam gasket (you’ll need to make this yourself) sits on the upper surface of the bumper’s flange, so that it will end up being sandwiched between the bumper and the underside of the hatch sheet metal.

After all of the mounting holes are aligned, one of the stainless clips get snapped in place so that it sandwiches all four layers:  hatch sheet metal, foam gasket, bumper flange, and plenum flange.  Repeat at the other end of the vent cutout.  The bent lower face of the clip fits inside the plenum. The flat upper face of the clip fits over the outside of the painted surface of the hatch.  The compression of the spongey gasket provides some load within the layers, keeping things from rattling.

The mounting pins molded into the back surface of decorative chrome-plastic vents are now pushed into place.  No metal barrel clip is used.  Instead, the edges of hole in the clip bite directly into the plastic pin.  You may need to figure out a way to push on the internal tab of the clip so that it doesn't back away as the pin is pressed into place (i's been a while and I don't remember whether this was a problem or not).

Note:  I suppose that the lip around the inside of the bumper isn’t mandatory.  However, I hope you can now see the logic in having it there.  Making lips for your flat eBay bumpers won’t be too hard.  You could even make them using an old inner tube (they don’t have to be stiff – they just need to form a funnel that's long enough to project into the top of the plenum).  Once cut to shape, glue each lip into place and make sure the seam where the ends meet is positioned on the top (located at the front when the hatch is closed) of the opening, rather than the bottom.

Note:  I’m not sure how thick your eBay ‘bumpers’ are.  If they’re too thick (relative to the OE plastic bumpers), you may not have enough room to fit a foam gasket.  I suppose that you could use sealant, although assembly might get messy (and taking things apart at some later date would be a pain).  Some 1/16”-thick closed-cell neoprene foam would probably work as a substitute (can be found a Michael’s craft centres).  Not much give in compression.  You may need to layer it to get the right thickness.

[CanTechZ]

3 hours ago, Namerow said:

It looks to me like to aftermarket eBay pieces that you’ve bought have been incorrectly made.  They appear to have been stamped out of some type of rubber or foam sheet material.  That would make it easy to mistake them for gaskets.  In fact, the real OE pieces (called ‘bumpers’) are molded from plastic.  The plastic used has a bit of flexibility, but not much (probably made from PVC or Delrin, rather than from styrene).  Each bumper's shapes consist of an internal lip and an external flange.  The flange forms a shelf on which an actual gasket sits.  That gasket can be cut from squishy, closed-cell foam tape.

The purpose of the lip molded into the bumper is to make sure that all of the rain or wash water funnels down into the plenum chamber.  Without the lip, some of the water could find its way into the hatch cavity as it drips down through the vent, leading to premature rusting around the periphery of the hatch and/or around the hatch window frame.

The purpose of the gasket is to prevent rain/wash water from seeping into the seam between the top surface of the bumper flange and the unpainted underside of the outer hatch sheet metal.

As for the retainer clips, I made mine from scratch (there were no replacement pieces available at the time).  They may, then, look a bit different from the stainless clips that you bought.  However, I sized the holes in them specifically to accept and grip on the plastic pins that are molded onto the bottom of the chromed-plastic vent trim pieces.  There was/is no good way to use screws to hold the vent-gasket-bumper-plenum assembly together.  Unfortunately, the pin-into-clip securement strategy means that it will probably prove impossible to remove the chrome vent trim piece after the fact without breaking off the pins.

Here’s the correct assembly sequence:

The plenum (#55) goes inside the hatch with the little accordion drains attached to the bottom of the hatch panel.

Then the black plastic bumper piece sits on top of the plenum, with the lip pointed down into the plenum cavity.  It looks like the factory used sealant in the join between the bumper flange and the plenum flange.

Then the foam gasket (you’ll need to make this yourself) sits on the upper surface of the bumper’s flange, so that it will end up being sandwiched between the bumper and the underside of the hatch sheet metal.

After all of the mounting holes are aligned, one of the stainless clips get snapped in place so that it sandwiches all four layers:  hatch sheet metal, foam gasket, bumper flange, and plenum flange.  Repeat at the other end of the vent cutout.  The bent lower face of the clip fits inside the plenum. The flat upper face of the clip fits over the outside of the painted surface of the hatch.  The compression of the spongey gasket provides some load within the layers, keeping things from rattling.

The mounting pins molded into the back surface of decorative chrome-plastic vents are now pushed into place.  No metal barrel clip is used.  Instead, the edges of hole in the clip bite directly into the plastic pin.  You may need to figure out a way to push on the internal tab of the clip so that it doesn't back away as the pin is pressed into place (i's been a while and I don't remember whether this was a problem or not).

Note:  I suppose that the lip around the inside of the bumper isn’t mandatory.  However, I hope you can now see the logic in having it there.  Making lips for your flat eBay bumpers won’t be too hard.  You could even make them using an old inner tube (they don’t have to be stiff – they just need to form a funnel that's long enough to project into the top of the plenum).  Once cut to shape, glue each lip into place and make sure the seam where the ends meet is positioned on the top (located at the front when the hatch is closed) of the opening, rather than the bottom.

Note:  I’m not sure how thick your eBay ‘bumpers’ are.  If they’re too thick (relative to the OE plastic bumpers), you may not have enough room to fit a foam gasket.  I suppose that you could use sealant, although assembly might get messy (and taking things apart at some later date would be a pain).  Some 1/16”-thick closed-cell neoprene foam would probably work as a substitute (can be found a Michael’s craft centres).  Not much give in compression.  You may need to layer it to get the right thickness.

Thanks for this excellent description/ procedure. The JDM parts book details this area much better than the North American parts book. Here is a snippet from the JDM book and partial parts list. The clips you made and show above in post #798, are item 14 p/n 90829-E4101, yours look great.

[Patcon]

Thanks @Namerow @CanTechZ

Part #12 90827-e4100 doesn't even come up at Courtesy as a good part number. I can't find that part on carpartsmanual to see if the number is different. It's an interesting dilemma

I am pretty confident I don't have any pieces like that unless they're still stuck inside the hatch...