Found metal at the bottom of my 5-speed. What next?

[KDMatt]

I'd start it and run it through the gears before putting the exhaust on.

Not gonna get away with that in the middle of the night though -- open headers + suburb + middle of the night = cops. Haha. 

[Dave WM]

go for it, be a menace to society!

[KDMatt]

Hey gang! Sorry to leave you all hanging for the rest of the week. I took me several days to get my new exhaust mocked up and installed... however..

SUCCESS! 

I just took the car out a few blocks, shifted through all of the gears -- no noises, no grinds, no hesitation. Everything is working just as it should.

BIG THANK YOU to everyone who's been a part of this thread. Dave, Zed, Chas, Mark, et al -- you guys rock! Thanks for being pillars of support in my time of need! This would have been a way more intimidating project without your guys' encouragement.

Now I just need to get used to my clutch engagement being so low -- I'm used to it being near the top of the pedal, and now it's a lot closer to the bottom. My neighbors must think I'm a complete newb at driving stick.

 

[Zed Head]

19 minutes ago, KDMatt said:

Now I just need to get used to my clutch engagement being so low -- I'm used to it being near the top of the pedal, and now it's a lot closer to the bottom. My neighbors must think I'm a complete newb at driving stick.

You could still have some play in the pedal linkage, or air in the hydraulics.  And the clevis pin and other parts have been known to wear.

Congrats.  You never did give a good telling of how you got the transmission installed, after getting a transmission jack.  Did it slide right in or was there more cursing?

[Dave WM]

Great news!

[KDMatt]

4 hours ago, Zed Head said:

You could still have some play in the pedal linkage, or air in the hydraulics.  And the clevis pin and other parts have been known to wear.

Congrats.  You never did give a good telling of how you got the transmission installed, after getting a transmission jack.  Did it slide right in or was there more cursing?

I might also have the pedal mis-adjusted too... I did a lot of weird stuff when I felt the clutch slipping -- live and learn! My old slave cylinder was something I'd cobbled together and adjusted in weird ways, so I replaced it with a new one -- so it's freshly bled thanks to a little help from a buddy. Clutch master is pretty fresh too -- within the last couple-of-years/few-thousand-miles. 

Thank you though. The transmission did take a little more cussing and swearing to get in there, even with the jack. I had a really hard time keeping it balanced on the jack, and keeping it centered.

It slid in with a little bit of fussing... and I will admit I "cheated" a bit by sliding my endoscope in through the cluch-fork sleeve to see where and how it was mis-adjusted ... i.e. did I need to move the tail left, right, down, up ... to get it dead on. In between cusses it suddenly slid into place, with the jack under it, it was able to stay there while I tightened it all down.

Thanks again for all of your cautionary advice in this thread Zed Head. 

Now if I can get cracking on some of my running issues/tune-up stuff I might almost be able to tolerate driving this thing on the regular again.

[Chickenman]

5 hours ago, KDMatt said:

Hey gang! Sorry to leave you all hanging for the rest of the week. I took me several days to get my new exhaust mocked up and installed... however..

SUCCESS! 

I just took the car out a few blocks, shifted through all of the gears -- no noises, no grinds, no hesitation. Everything is working just as it should.

BIG THANK YOU to everyone who's been a part of this thread. Dave, Zed, Chas, Mark, et al -- you guys rock! Thanks for being pillars of support in my time of need! This would have been a way more intimidating project without your guys' encouragement.

Now I just need to get used to my clutch engagement being so low -- I'm used to it being near the top of the pedal, and now it's a lot closer to the bottom. My neighbors must think I'm a complete newb at driving stick.

 

With the self adjusting clutch slave cylinder the pedal will start out low and then get progressively higher as the clutch wears. Clutch fork moves forward. When the clutch disc is very worn, then pedal will be very near the top. That's the nature of the the self adjusting mechanism.

Manual adjusting slave cylinders are similar in function. As the clutch disc wears the clutch fork moves forward, but in this case it just uses up the free-play in the adjusting rod.  When you adjust the clutch rod to re-establish free-play, the clutch pedal is re-centered in it's travel. The clutch fork has still moved forwards, but you physically shorten the slave adjusting rod,  thus returning the pedal to it's " Normal " position. 

 

 

.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2016 by Chickenman

[Chickenman]

Just a note on pedal height. Normally you would never touch the clutch Master cylinder to  pedal rod length to compensate for clutch wear. If you " played " with it,  you may want to check that dimensions in the FSM and set it back to stock.... especially with the self adjusting mechanism style of clutch.

You can adjust the clutch pedal height " somewhat "  by adjusting the MC rod length and the stopper bolt. Just make sure that the MC returns ALL the way to the fully closed position after adjustment. There is a specific measurement required in the FSM, but  having the C/MC piston bottom out on the retaining clip assures this. The last thing you want is the clutch MC rod adjusted too long and applying release pressure to the clutch P/Plate. The self adjusting clutches are more sensitive to this problem than the manual adjusting type, because with a manual adjusting S/Cyl you can always have Free-play between the clutch fork and the clutch slave cylinder threaded rod just by shortening the S/Cyl threaded rod. 

 

[EuroDat]

10 hours ago, KDMatt said:

Now I just need to get used to my clutch engagement being so low -- I'm used to it being near the top of the pedal, and now it's a lot closer to the bottom. My neighbors must think I'm a complete newb at driving stick.

Poeple often comment abou clutch engagement height when they change from the origunal 280Z clutch to an aftermarket clutch. The 280Z pressure plate seemed to work in tge higher range of travel. This could be what you are experiencing as well.

After a couple of days/week of driving I would bleed the clutch again to make sure all the air is out. A little bit of air will effect clutch engagement. You only have to open the bleeder once. Any air thats in there will be in the slave cylinder. The rest would have worked its way back up to the M/C and out through the reservoir.

A good idea to check your M/C and pedal adjustments like chickenman said. If the MC dossn't come back completly it will not open the port to the reservoir and the self adjusting will no longer work. The clutch fork can not adjust to wear because the fluid can not escape to the reservoir.

Nice to hear it all worked out in the end. The first time is always hardest and you were on your own which makes it more challenging.

But doesn't it feel good now it's all back together running like you want it to?

[Zed Head]

That's a good point on aftermarket.  What brand is the new one?  The engagement point should get narrower as the disc wears in.  There are other factors also, like thickness of the marcel spring and just general tightness of tolerances for the disc and pressure plate.

The slave cylinder self-adjusts becuase it stays as full as the clutch fork lets it.  The piston in the cylinder is pushed back by the clutch fork and pushed forward by a spring inside.  So it stays full and ready for action.  If it refills through the hole in the MC, as described.

I've mentioned this before, but one way to get very close to correct on the initial pedal linkage adjustment is to turn the rod clevis out until the clevis pin slides in easily with the pedal all the way up, pulled up by its own spring.  Then you can add a few turns to tighten it even more or take out play from wear.  If you had to pull/push the rod or pedal back or forward or get the pin in, it's probably not right.

 

[Chickenman]

^ Yes, that's the method I've used most of the time as well. Quick and easy and pretty much fool proof..

[KDMatt]

Right on guys. I'll try to find some time to play around with the pedal and linkage this week just to make sure it's all lined up like it's supposed to. I doubt very much I played with the master, but there's no harm in pulling it out just to see. I replaced the slave cylinder back in 2010/2011 -- and back then (unbeknownst to me at the time) the clutch was so worn out that the rod-length on the new slave was keeping that fork from retreating all the way... so in my mind at the time I needed to modify the new slave cylinder to make it work correctly... I ended up drilling that dish the rod sits in just enough so that the slave could sit flush with the fork lever.

Since I'm a little older and (arguably) wiser now, I knew that with a new clutch/pressure-disc going in, the hackneyed slave cylinder had to go, which is why I put in a new one at the same time I did this job. They're cheap enough, and there's an Autozone hub 45 minutes from my house that has pretty much anything I'd ever need for this car in stock, so it was an easy decision. 

The clutch master was replaced at a later date... sometime between then and now... which is why I don't remember fiddling with it. 

@EuroDat Yeah dude, it feels pretty good that I was able to take apart a transmission, replace the broken bits, throw it all back together, and have it work.  It really puts that $700-900 rebuild quote into perspective! I think I got out of this whole thing for somewhere in the neighborhood of $120 if you include specialty tools and replacement parts (along with new gear oil) and don't count the clutch/pressure-plate. 

@Zed Head The clutch and pressure-plate came as a kit -- the clutch brand is Parault I believe, and the pressure plate is from Exedy. The new throw-out bearing was OEM (Koyo? Does that sound right? I chucked most of the boxes after I was done with everything -- the replacement parts have all been sitting on a shelf for a few years, so no chance of warranty-claims on any of it should it all go suddenly awry...)

Now I just need to go and knock on some wood or something... I'm superstitious and I sure I hope I haven't jinxed the whole car by singing my own praises!

Thanks again for all of the help and insights, team.  

Oh, and @Dave WM I look forward to hearing how you progress on your end too! I've been so wrapped up in my own project I haven't seen how yours is coming.