Found metal at the bottom of my 5-speed. What next?

[KDMatt]

Update -- it looks like the splines aren't engaging afterall -- even with that thing swung as far forward as I can swing it, I can still turn the shafts. No amount of me fussing and swearing and kicking is getting it up there and engaged.

I lowered it (for the third time) and took off the pressure plate and clutch (also for the third time) and slipped the disc over the input shaft on the transmission, just to make sure they would fit... and they do -- they mate just fine so long as they're lined up... but for some reason, with everything together and in the car I can't get it all to line up and play nice. I re-aligned the clutch AGAIN, and this time the alignment is absolutely spot-on -- I can slip the alignment tool out with complete ease. 

I put out an SOS in my local chapter to see if anyone wants to show up and give me a hand ... I'm tired and sore after trying to do this for about 36 hours...  and I'm about ready to scrap the car altogether, lol. 

[Chickenman]

5 hours ago, KDMatt said:

This is as far as I've been able to get it. 

I dropped it back out again. My alignment tool came with a new bushing. Should I pop out the one that's in the motor now and use the new one? Do I need to take the flywheel off to get to it? If I stick my finger in there I can feel it. 

Trust me, I've done plenty of cussing shoving and wiggling, and I can't get it to go any farther than this:

 

Looking at this picture, you don't seem to have the transmission mainshaft EXACTLY parallel to the engine crankshaft  center-line. Looks like there is a bit more clearance between at the bottom of  the Bell housing and engine block than at the top. I'm going by the amount of exposed flywheel in this picture. It doesn't look even. If that view is correct, then the tail of the tranny needs to come down a small amount.

I think your " Ratcheting straps " idea could be messing you up. Beg, borrow or Rent  a hydraulic floor jack. Put it under the middle of the tranny and just bring it up enough so that it's barely taking the weight of the tranny off the straps. Then remove the straps. The hydraulic jack can then be adjusted to get the top and bottom clearance between the Tranny Bell housing and the engine block even. The spacing has to be has to be even up and down and side to side. Once you get things aligned EXACTLY... these things usually just POP into place. . Never get the tail of the tranny too high .( Which is what it looks like you have in the above picture ). It will never go in thet way. Dead nuts parrallel is best, but you can get away with having the tail a bit low. As you push onon the back of tha tail housing, the natural forces tend to push the tail up a bit, bringing things into alignment. 

The floor jack will allow you to wiggle the transmission while pushing forwards. The straps may be restricting forward motion. 

Also, make sure that you haven't damaged the pilot bushing. You may have put a Burr on it or the input shaft. Some of the alignment tools can be a pretty  " sloppy " fit. The actual Input shaft has a pretty tight tolerance to the Pilot bushing.

One more thing. Make sure that you didn't " Pack " the Pilot bushing with too much grease. That can actually " Hydraulic lock"  the Input shaft from being inserted all the way. A very light coating of Moly grease on the Input shaft is all you need.

 

If all else fails... put some " Fur " around it... that always helps me find the " hole "  

[EuroDat]

That photo says a lot. Looks like the input shaft is not engaging the clutch disc. Try turning the output shaft at the rear extension. You might need to grip the main shaft lightly with vice grips or something like that and turn it while pushing it.

If you are working alone, threaded bar or bolts about twice the length of the originals will help hold it in place. DON'T use them to pull it home, you will damage something. The bolts will hold the transmission more or less in line so you can get behind it and wiggle it in.

If you use the bolts, use your jack (even a scissor jack well do in a pinch) to support the transmission and play with the height. You can then remove the straps. They are probably restricking your movement too much anyway.

 

3 hours ago, KDMatt said:

I put out an SOS in my local chapter to see if anyone wants to show up and give me a hand ... I'm tired and sore after trying to do this for about 36 hours...  and I'm about ready to scrap the car altogether, lol. 

It might be time to leave it alone for a while. Do something else and get your thoughts back on track. We have all been there and frustration can work against you just as much as the problem itself.

Try to find someone to give you a helping hand. Even if its only for moral support and keep you sane through this dilemma. Working on your own came be frustrating when things ain't going well.

[KDMatt]

I think I'm going to make a trip to Harbor Freight later to get one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/transmission-jacks/450-lb-low-lift-transmission-jack-61232.html

It's clear that my strap system isn't working as well as I'd like. 

[Zed Head]

If you're going to break it all down again to transmission on the floor, you might just take the pressure plate off again and slip the clutch disc over the splines.  Make sure it will actually engage as far as it needs to.  You might have the shaft jammed up against it so it won't turn but not getting insertion.  Measure the diameter of the clutch tool and the main shaft nose and make sure that they're the same.  Also, check that the disc wasn't installed backward.  I think that the spline entrance of the disc is sloped to allow easy insertion the proper way but might be squared off on the back side, making it difficult.

Before you break it down though, take actual measurements of the gap at various places.  When you're in a hurry it's easy to make a guess, but an accurate number might tell something.  For example, the nose of the main shaft is only so long, not even an inch, I believe.  So if you're more than an inch out you haven't even made contact with the pilot bushing yet.  The gap can only be less than the shaft insertion distance in to the bushing if that was the problem.

[Dave WM]

is it possible you have a different spline count on the clutch disk?

[Mark Maras]

 This brings back painful memories of a 65 Mustang cast iron (heavy) 4 speed that wouldn't go in. Two of us tried repeatedly to muscle (no jack) it in until we were exhausted. Finally, in desperation, we pulled the clutch disc out and found a burr on one of the splines. Filed it down and made sure the disc slid easily on the input shaft splines. Trans. slid right in. Now I make sure the pilot bushing fits over the input shaft and the splines on the shaft and disc are compatible.

 I find it quite easy to double check the disc alignment by sight on a Z. There's enough room to get your head up in the tunnel and see if it's centered.  Eyeballing or measuring the gap between the bellhousing and the engine is the best way to determine if the alignment is off. I prefer to have the tail shaft just a bit lower so I can lift the rear and push at the same time. Not to be confused with twerking.

[KDMatt]

Hey @Zed Head I totally did that bud.

I took off the pressure plate and clutch disc and slipped the latter party over the spline on the transmission, just to make sure it will slide over it and engage -- and it does -- I can push it all the way to the throw-out bearing. The disc is also clearly labeled "transmission side" on one end of it - so it's not in backwards either.

I'll take some more precise measurements of the gap if this continues to be a problem. I'm going to go get a proper transmission jack tonight so I won't have to mess around with straps anymore -- I think that's half my problem, tbh. I'm just starting to think that I've got the transmission at a ****-eyed angle and that's why it won't go through all the way.

When I had the new disc off, I had to align it perfectly with the drive shaft in order to get it to thread through. 

@Dave WM -- same thing I just said to Mr. Zed. The splines are a dead-ringer for the old one -- I test-fit it all outside of the car, I think my entry angle is what's killing me here. 

[Chickenman]

Getting the entry angle wrong can really be a pain in the Butt...

[KDMatt]

1 hour ago, Chickenman said:

Getting the entry angle wrong can really be a pain in the Butt...

This could really be taken the wrong way!! 

Transmission jack is in hand. I'll let you guys know how it goes tonight. 

[Dave WM]

I feel success is just around the corner!

[KDMatt]

Okay gang, I got the transmission back up into the car ( @Dave WM your prediction came true!) ... but before I put everything back together and install my new exhaust, I wanted to check with you guys on the subject of clutch engagement.

I took some pictures of where the slave cylinder is sitting, because I can still push the fork lever in with room to spare... and I'm not sure that's normal... The slave cylinder used to press right up against the fork lever... it was tight... Granted, before all of this, the clutch didn't start to grab until the pedal was near the very top of its travel, so maybe with it like this it'll be more toward the middle.

@Zed Head you were telling me a cautionary tale about engagement. Would you weigh in on this please? 

As much as I loathe the idea of taking it all down again, there's no sense in putting everything back together if it isn't going to work right.