Rally anyone?

[HS30-H]

Just to update DOEHRING about that NISMO "museum" in Japan; in fact Nissan showed two of the Works S30 Rally cars they still own at the NISMO headquarters ( called the "Omori Factory" ) in Omori Tokyo. This was a special promotion in late November and early December 2001 to coincide with the "NISMO FESTIVAL" event at Fuji Speedway, where the "new" Fairlady Z was shown to the general public ( to be sold as the "350Z" in the USA ).

Nissan actually still own at least three S30 "240Z" Works Rally cars, as well as many other important ex-competition Datsun, Nissan and Prince cars. However, these cars are normally kept in Yokohama ( in a building called the "Nissan Memorial Sports Hall" which is in reality a large hanger that is not open to the general public ). One day maybe they will make a proper museum..............

Please note that the Nismo HQ at Omori, Tokyo is most definitely NOT a museum! This is the main HQ of NISMO and is very much a working and creative facility, with race-car building and planning going on, as well as special servicing on high-performance Nissans for customers. This site was originally the HQ of Datsun Competition ( "Sport Corner" etc. in Japan ) and has a great and long history. The two S30 Rally cars on display were the no.5 car driven by Rauno Aaltonen on the 1972 Monte Carlo Rally ( finishing third ) and the no. 21 car driven by Edgar Herrmann on the 1971 Safari Rally ( overall winner ). Both cars are in amazingly original and unmolested condition with fantastic patina and almost nothing missing.

I was lucky enough to visit the Omori Factory at just the time when the two cars were on temporary display ( I also visited the NISMO FESTIVAL at Fuji Speedway ) and the staff there were kind enough to let me take many photos of the cars after crawling under, over and all through them. Anyone who thinks that these cars were anything like a "standard" car would be in for a real big surprise....................

Another genuine ex-Works 240Z is currently under restoration in the UK. There are very very few survivors of the Works rally campaign.

DOEHRING asked about a Rally 280ZX possibly entered by a Japanese privateer crew on the RAC rally in the UK. I photographed this car several years ago in a small museum in Japan near Fuji Speedway. I still have at least one photo and I will try to dig it out. It was indeed a privateer effort, sponsored by the Japanese importer of CIBIE spotlamps - and the museum that the car is now in belongs to the CIBIE importer. That car was nothing like as special as the Works S30-type Rally cars.

Perhaps DOEHRING would like to get in touch with me if he is interested in more info.

[Z-point]

Those two cars you mentioned we have seen at the former placed pictures by Rodd from Australia. Scroll upwards and you find them.. Great stuff indeed. Always thought there gone!

I really like to see more of your crawling under the car pictures!! I’m trying to give my car the looks of a MC rally no5 car therefore it would be very interesting to have a look at you pictures.

I personally visit Kevin Bristow last year to have a look at his former rally car. He’s very dedicated to get that car on the road again. And he will I’m sure about that.

Regards,

Guus

Z-point

[HS30-H]

Hello Guus, How do you do?

I have heard about your Monte Carlo rally Z project, and in fact had seen pictures of it. Glad that you are doing something that not many people try to do.

I have about 300 photos of the Works rally Zs that were on temporary display at the Nismo HQ in Omori, Tokyo last year. They let me go all over them ( once we found the keys ) and let me have full access - so I could sit in them and pretend to be Rauno and Edgar on the stages..........

Tell me what areas of the cars you are particularly interested in and I will try to select some of the best shots.

I also have a big archive of period books and magazines ( particularly Japanese race magazines like Autosport and Auto Tecnic ) which contain great articles, as well as a lot of contemporary Japanese stuff like NOSTALGIC HERO and OLD TIMER magazine. I am sure that you have a copy os "NOS HERO" which has just beautiful photography.

Kevin Bristow is a good friend of mine and I have been helping him to research his own ex-Works 1971 RAC Rally 240Z. He is making an absolutely fantastic job of it, and it is progressing well.

I actually have some performance parts that would suit your Monte Carlo replica well - I import a lot of stuff from Japan for my own cars as well as for the Rally and Circuit racers in the UK. I can get some parts that you might have thought were not available any more. Let me know what you need.

Have you seen any pictures of Vince Budd's Monte Carlo Rally Z replica from here in the UK? He has made a pretty good job too, and has used some parts from me quite recently too. His 4.6 R200 LSD will make a big difference to his stage times I think!

Stay in touch, and tell me what you want to see details wise on those photos.

All the best,

Alan Thomas ( London, UK - "HS30-H" )

[Z-point]

Hi Alan,

Great car you have! Reminds me at properly the first Z car I saw from….. Tamiya.

I still have the idea we have met in Holland at the racetrack in Zandvoort (‘90), is this correct? Did you ever have a red 240z very low a very fast?

Have you seen me latest picture attached to this club, http://www.240z.org/photopost/index.php?photo=171&size=big

I’m still busy to make the final touch; decals of Seiko, Dunlop and NGK. My friend and I are creating replica decals of all three firms. Sure I have seen the Z car of Vince; I visited Billing last summer and met him over there. Problem is his car is a 260Z! Before we went to Billing we visited Kevin at his garage. What a great place to visit. It looked a bit like my place, all sorts of parts in all corners, great. But what a dedication to make that historic rally car compatible again.

I envy you because you had the opportunity to visit the rally twins and sit in them as well!!

The first thing in my mind was “I want all of the 300 pictures”, the second and latest thing in the same mind was I stick to that. If that is a problem then I consider taking less but otherwise I very much like to pay for all 300! I do have a copy of Nostalgic Hero no.260 where the twins are being described, very nice pictures. I always thought Nissan had nothing to do with history but in on the contrary they do! After the cars where displayed I mailed my man at Nissan Japan to take action in finding those two. But he was too late, they where already brought back to the ‘museum’. And now you are coming with an offer, it’s amazing.

You mentioned parts, what kind of parts are they? What I like to have are factory wheels, I know they exist but they are expensive! For the rest tell me.

Regards,

Guus

Z-point

[Z-point]

Originally posted by rodd

I started building the Fujimi 1/20th Lemans 240z and would love pics of the original if anyone has any.

Love to find out more details of the LeMans 240Z.

All I know is that it was an ex rally car, ran at LeMans twice, finishing one year and crashing the other I think.

Thanks Rodd

Hi Rodd,

this all what I have at this moment, you liki it?

Guus

Z-point

[Z-point]

Originally posted by Z-point

Hi Rodd,

this all what I have at this moment, you liki it?

Guus

Z-point

stupid off me wrong picture

sorry

Guus

Z-point

[HS30-H]

Hi Guus,

Thanks for your response.

That certainly wasn't me that you met at Zandvoort - I was living in Japan in the early '90s. The last time I went to Zandvoort was probably about 1976, but yes I did have a 110 Red '73 UK-spec. 240Z that was pretending to be a Fairlady 240Z with lots of period option stuff ( factory headlamp covers, mesh grille, 8-spoke RS Watanabe wheels, all emblems Japanese-spec. etc. etc. ). That used to be my daily driver, but I sold it on.

Regarding the photos of the Works Rally cars that I took at the "Omori Factory" in Tokyo - well, copying 300-odd photos is going to be a pretty arduous task, not to mention expensive. At least half of them are of the Safari car, rather than the Monte car ( although I would have thought you would be interested in both ). Far better for us to narrow down the areas that you are most interested in, so that I can edit it a bit. Bear in mind that they are pretty precious to me, and simply passing all of them on to you will be a bit of a wrench. This kind of thing is not easy to get hold of, and I did a real lot of leg-work ( not to mention spending a lot of money ) to visit Japan and see the cars. Nissan hardly ever lets the "General Public" see them, so short of a "Royal Audience" by command I had to wait until they came on show to all. I will scan up some tasters for you and post them below later tonight.

Love those pictures of the Le Mans cars above. I have been trying to understand the truth and all details about those cars for quite a while now. Are both those photos old ones from the period in question? I heard that the second-year car was still in existence in the Poitiers region of France, but it must surely have been rebuilt or re-shelled from the crashed car? I think they were a little creative with their entry for the first year, as the car was described as something different to what its Japanese registration plate number said it was........... Do you know anything about all this? I am trying to establish whether that car really was an ex-Works rally car, and if the two cars that raced at Le Mans in successive years really were in fact one car ( meaning it changed from a 240Z into a 260Z - as I say, I think they were a little creative ). I would love to hear what info. you have, and maybe that would be a good trade for some photos!

As for parts for your Monte Carlo Rally replica - what do you need? If you want to go the whole hog it will cost a lot of Yen. I have replicas of the "Rally Mag" wheels that were originally made by Kobe Seiko for Nissan, however they are cast aluminium rather than forged magnesium ( to keep costs down and last longer ). However, they are REALLY expensive - and I mean REALLY. I also have a pair of excellent replicas of the factory bucket seats ( the ones that were manufactured for Nissan by Ikeda Bussan ). The Monte car that you are replicating had a pair of these, but some of the Safari and RAC Rally cars had a reclining version for the navigator. These seats are also MEGA expensive. I also have some hard mechanical parts, such as R200 LSD Diffs. ( 4.1, 4.3, 4.6 & 5.1 available - no 4.8 ) although you will find that the Monte cars on that year had an R180, and these are too easy to break so I don't recommend them. Some of the factory Rally cars used the R192 Diff. ( not the R190 - that is different ) which was fitted to the Z432 and Skyline GT-R - but they are so expensive that there is no point, and you can hardly see it anyway! I have MK63 4-pot front brake calipers, Factory Rally struts / legs ( F & R ), and the Datsun Competition steering wheel. I am making a replica of the 100 Litre fuel tank ( with the corresponding "flat floor" in place of the spare wheel well ) for my project 432R replica - and lots of details on the shell were similar. In fact, you could call some of the factory Rally cars a 432R ( PS30-SB ) shell with an L-series engine installed. In essence, that's what they were - but obviously with all the special Rally bits. Many of the Japanese circuit race parts are shared with the Rally cars.

I could go on about all this stuff forever, and bore 99% of the audience to death! If you want to correspond about it, just let me know. Now that I have my new scanner installed ( bought today! ) I can scan a few photos and put them up for you. In the meantime, here's a taster of the Rally Mag wheels and the Ikeda Bussan seat replicas;

See you,

Alan Thomas ( HS30-H ).

[HS30-H]

Guus,

Starting to get the hang of my new scanner now.

Here are some photos as a taster of the Works Monte Carlo Rally Car at Nismo's HQ back in December.

They are the engine bay, Rauno's "office" , and the Jacking Point on the left-hand side sill. You might need to replicate the jacking point for your replica car...............

See you again soon,

All the best,

Alan Thomas ( HS30-H )

[HS30-H]

Here's the "office" and Jacking Point;

[rodd]

Guus

Thanks for the pic. Do you know if they are the same car?

The Fujimi Kit is of the No 73 car. seems to be a reasonabley accurate model except for not having a G nose. Have attached a couple of pics of the box.

HS30-H There is a pic of the No 72 LeMans car in the book "The Z series Datsuns by Ray Hutton" It shows it with a the Number Plate TKS 33 6466 and points out this was an ex factory 260Z rally car as used in the 1974 RAC rally.

Great info and great pics. Your definitly not boring me. Keep the pics and info coming. My favorite car is the 73 Safari winning car. I'm building the Tamiya 1/12th scale model of it. Any info and pics would be greatly appreciated.

[rodd]

Here are the model pics

[rodd]

Side of Box