Can't tell if I have the valve keepers in right!

[KDMatt]

1 minute ago, Zed Head said:

Just a note - the socket and hammer are done with the valve head free, no compressor.  That breaks the retainer free from the keepers.  Then the spring compressor should easily press the retainer down so that you can remove the keepers.  Your writing implies that you're combining the steps.  Maybe causing binding. 

As I understand the various tips and tricks.

Didn't mean to imply that -- I'm treating them as separate steps. A few good whacks on the outside of the spring retainer with a socket+extension, then trying with the compressor. That's the process you mean to imply, yeah? 

... and man, are you and Chas in every thread? First you nursed me through my transmission rebuild/refresh, and now here you are again with my valve seals. (I kid I kid, I'm glad you guys are here) 

I'm going to try redoing the rope again when I get home... to see if i can get less movement out of the valve... if not, I'll try a bunch of thin aquarium tubing as has been suggested... I feel like if I can really get that valve "locked" and unable to bounce, some really hard whacks with the hammer and socket are going to go a long way toward breaking those keepers (collets?) free... as I understand it, that's what you're getting at too, Chas. 

@siteunseen nailed it -- turned the locknut and adjustment all the way down, pulled up on the rocker arm and with a little bit of gentle prying they come loose. The spring still needs to go down an iota though to let that happen. 

 

[EuroDat]

I punched out the internals of a spark plug so I could make a compressed air fitting to do leak down test. You could make something like that. It took me about 1 hour to make. If you get the piston up to tdc and lock the engine in 5th gear with the ebrake on. The compressd air (about 6 - 8 bar) will hold the valve in place so you can hit the retainer without the valve moving.

Ill post a photo of it tonight. Basically need some fitting for the sparkplug hole and compressed air. I have done the seals using that method as well. It wasn't on a Datsun, but some principle.

[KDMatt]

Ok guys, I got it! The aquarium tubing was a big help on that stubborn valve -- I gave it a few good whacks and sure enough one of the keepers straight up flew across the garage. I got really lucky -- almost lost the little bugger, but I got it.

I had a few more stubborn ones along the way, but I really got the rubber-mallet + socket/extension whack down to a science by the time I was down to the last couple of valves. I see what you mean now Chas -- that the sound changes once you've got the keepers broken loose. It's subtle but I was able to pick it up... by the time I was down to the last 2 or 3 I could detect it enough to just know that the keepers would be free if I compressed the valve springs. 

I drained out all the oil and put some fresh 10w30 in there -- it's idling SO smoothly now, and no more big plumes of smoke out the back!!! Even seems to rev a little nicer too. 

Only concern I've got is that I seem to have picked up a tiny bit of valve/cam noise ... Nothing overbearing or loud -- not even overwhelmingly "ticky" ... just a little more noise. Granted, I used to run at least a quart of Lucas oil additive in there before, so my engine oil was SUPER thick. I imagine that now that I'm running a correct (thinner) weight, it might just be a bit noisier. I imagine it's about on par with where my old 3-series used to be, noise-wise. 

Dunno. I imagine it would be super obvious if I messed something up, right? I can shoot a video tomorrow.

Thanks for all your help, team!!

[rossiz]

have you done a hot valve lash adjustment? these motors are really sensitive to getting that set just right - both for valve train sound and tuning.

glad you got it done - without losing a collet. those seals are a "simple" job made more difficult by old stuck parts, but really make a difference. 

Edited May 25, 2016 by rossiz

[EuroDat]

With all this experience you are gaining on this project your next datsun project will be a breeze

Good to hear things a going your way. Sounds like two jobs, two successes. Nothing more satisfying then when you do something on these cars and you see/feel the benifits of all that hard earned knowledge.

[KDMatt]

34 minutes ago, EuroDat said:

With all this experience you are gaining on this project your next datsun project will be a breeze

Good to hear things a going your way. Sounds like two jobs, two successes. Nothing more satisfying then when you do something on these cars and you see/feel the benifits of all that hard earned knowledge.

For sure! I don't think this thing has ever run this well in the 11 years I've owned it. It already feels like a completely different car and I'm not even finished! New shocks and springs this weekend (stay tuned for THAT thread, lol) -- I just needed to stop being a chicken about diving in there and just getting it done. After years of working on various other cars... a Beemer, couple of Honda motors, the T/A, my Mustang, I remembered how delightfully simple this 40-year-old Nissan powertrain is... kind of keeps things in perspective. 

Besides, she turned 40 this year. She's in the throws of a midlife crisis and demands some attention! 

"Next Datsun project" though... just don't tell my other half. I've been itching to get a Roadster... and if I had the room I probably wouldn't hesitate... but she would kill me if I came home with another project, haha! No, after the Z is back in good working order, my next focus will be on that third-gen Trans Am in my garage - the whole powertrain is coming out. 

Here's the video I took of the the car running -- I know I'm probably just being paranoid. I've heard motors that tick way worse than this one does. Don't mind me mumbling something about ticking and fuel injectors ... also don't mind the missing stuff on the valve cover. I was in a hurry to get the car running again so I skipped a few things. It was 2 AM!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_bZL8NqxIAejB3aGNHekgzTEU/view?usp=sharing

@rossiz I have not done a "hot" adjustment... I don't think I could adjust them fast enough for all of them to remain the same temperature. Needless to say I adjusted all of them to cold specs as I put the rockers and lashes back together - it'd been a few years since I'd last done it. 

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by KDMatt

[EuroDat]

That sounds like tappets need a hot adjustment like Rossiz said. Take it for a run to settle everything in and then it will be nice and warm to do the final adjustment.

I know exactly what you mean about a second project. Don't think Ill ever get budget approval. And jusg turning up with it on a trailer could be life threatening. I haven't got the time anyway. Too many other projects to get side tracked on.

[KDMatt]

16 minutes ago, EuroDat said:

That sounds like tappets need a hot adjustment like Rossiz said. Take it for a run to settle everything in and then it will be nice and warm to do the final adjustment.

I know exactly what you mean about a second project. Don't think Ill ever get budget approval. And jusg turning up with it on a trailer could be life threatening. I haven't got the time anyway. Too many other projects to get side tracked on.

I got lucky on the Trans Am project. She and I are big Knight Rider fans, so when I told her I had the opportunity to get a great deal on an '82 Trans Am, she was the very first person to tell me I should do it, haha... Between her and our housemate, we've got 5 cars here... If I showed up with a sixth there would definitely be hell to pay.  ... I might get a free pass if it were a Delorean though... in any case!

I probably won't start driving this car on the regular until at least next week... so I'll just let it run like this for a while, and then re-adjust the lash after it's had a chance to "settle in." 

 

[Patcon]

I bought a 73 240z one time and put it in the backyard. It took her a month to notice it...

[KDMatt]

2 hours ago, Patcon said:

I bought a 73 240z one time and put it in the backyard. It took her a month to notice it...

I read this out loud. The glare I got from across the room was priceless.

"You're not getting any more cars until we move" ... which doesn't mean never!!  

[KDMatt]

So, before we let this thread fall into the annals of CZC.com history...

... is the valve ticking/tapping in and of itself anything to worry about if the car seems to be running well otherwise? I'm assuming at some point I should just plan to replace the tappets, lash-pads, and retaining springs in the future, but for the time being the engine isn't going to self-destruct, right? I've only ever dealt with 'ticking' on cars with hydraulic lifters, which is a different ballgame. 

[Zed Head]

Yes, solid valve trains are noisy.  If it's not ticking that means lash might be too tight and you're about to burn a valve.  On top of the valve lash noise is the injector ticking which can be surprisingly loud.  All you can do is take the measurements and trust the engineers and others who've been there.  I've had a noisy #1 lifter for thousands of miles but it's been fine.  

So, the assumption is that you got all of the seals replaced, all back together, and the engine's running now?