Can't tell if I have the valve keepers in right!

[EuroDat]

I like to feed a piece of rope down the spark plug hole before turing the piston to TDC. After a coupls of goes you will get the feel of how much rope to feed in. It helps keep the valve up in its seat. I never have liked the idea of the valve hitting the piston and pushing it back down.

Note: If the socket trick doesn't crack the cleats loose, I try the socket extension off center on the spring cap just next to the valve stem and not on top of it. You will hear the sound change when they come loose.

[KDMatt]

I must have jinxed it, because now the intake on #4 won't come loose. Guess I'm done for the night. *sigh*

I sprayed penetrating oil all over the top of it... hopefully letting it sit for 24 hours does it some good. 

@EuroDat can you be more specific when you say I'll "hear the soudn change" ...? I don't really hear anything change when I'm whacking on these things. 

[rossiz]

i got frustrated with the way rope seemed inconsistent and too squishy on my last head so i used some small diameter vinyl tubing from the hardware store. it worked great for me and was easier to get in/out than the rope, which would get kinked up and squirrelly after a couple of cylinders. i know what you mean about that third hand - it takes a little practice. i'd compress the spring and hold the handle down with my left forearm and then use the left hand to hold the screwdriver and the right to tap the collets until they let go. it's fiddly for sure but you'll get the hang of it and be a pro by the time you're done :}

[KDMatt]

3 hours ago, rossiz said:

i got frustrated with the way rope seemed inconsistent and too squishy on my last head so i used some small diameter vinyl tubing from the hardware store. it worked great for me and was easier to get in/out than the rope, which would get kinked up and squirrelly after a couple of cylinders. i know what you mean about that third hand - it takes a little practice. i'd compress the spring and hold the handle down with my left forearm and then use the left hand to hold the screwdriver and the right to tap the collets until they let go. it's fiddly for sure but you'll get the hang of it and be a pro by the time you're done :}

Hmm, I'd be worried about the tubing cracking apart and getting stuck in there personally... but I suppose it's worth looking at. I think my nylon rope is too thick, tbh, and so the cylinder isn't completely full as a result.

... also, wait, you're tapping the spring retainer with your screwdriver, or you're tapping the keepers? I just want to make sure I understand. 

[Zed Head]

No tips on technique, but just a thought on "first principles".  The point of hitting the retainer, using a socket, is to release it from its jammed position on the keepers, allowing it to move later without the valve and keepers, using the spring compressor..  If yours are jammed so tight that the inertia of the hammer blow can't break it free, maybe something like a hammer drill would help, or pneumatic chisel without the chisel.  Your problem is that you can't move the retainer fast enough to leave the valve and keepers behind.

The pros probably trust that their hammer hits will break it free and they just nail it hard.  You're probably tapping weakly (no offense) afraid that you'll break something.

[LeonV]

12 hours ago, siteunseen said:

Quick side bar. 

LeonV, I absolutely love my aluminum flywheel and stock clutch combo. Thank you for helping me make that decision.  I think it's my favorite add on so far. Next is the triples. Baby steps. 8^)

I'm glad you like it! Great job getting it all together.

[KDMatt]

3 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

No tips on technique, but just a thought on "first principles".  The point of hitting the retainer, using a socket, is to release it from its jammed position on the keepers, allowing it to move later without the valve and keepers, using the spring compressor..  If yours are jammed so tight that the inertia of the hammer blow can't break it free, maybe something like a hammer drill would help, or pneumatic chisel without the chisel.  Your problem is that you can't move the retainer fast enough to leave the valve and keepers behind.

The pros probably trust that their hammer hits will break it free and they just nail it hard.  You're probably tapping weakly (no offense) afraid that you'll break something.

No offense taken -- I'm whacking pretty hard, but I probably have a compound problem. Even with the rope jammed all the way up and the crank shaft as far over as I can get it, the valve will still flex down about an 1/8" -- if it were firmly locked into place, those whacks might count for something... but man I can tell you I'm using a LOT of force on that spring compress and this one really doesn't want to let go. 

... and a hammer drill... that's a bit like an impact wrench right? ... where it spins as well as jumps up and down? You're thinking the rapid vibration and oscillation might help it break loose, eh? 

[Zed Head]

Yes on the hammer drill.  It's all about high inertia, low amplitude.  There are also hammer drivers, for driving screws in to wood.  The impact keeps the heads from stripping and pushes the screw in while turning.  They come with adapters for sockets.  I have a hammer drill, for concrete drilling, so if it was my problem I'd rig up a socket drive on the end and give it some spins.

I've not read of retainers being so stuck that head removal is necessary but would be surprised if it happens.  150,000 miles of heat cycles and vibration.

[EuroDat]

I know what rossiz means by rope being squishy. I used a cord from an iron for one head. Thats the eleftrical cord with cloth weaving. It worked great. I have also heard of people using small tubing like that used in fish tank bubblers. The small diameter doesn't squish so much and its easy to feed in the spark plug hole.

What I meant with the sound is at first its makes a ping ping sound and then changes to a dull thud sound when they let go. Mmm that might not be making it any clearer. Once you have done a couple you will get my drift, do to speak.

Don't tap the clests or collets as datsun calls them. They are tight around the valve stem and the spring is still pushing them tightly around the valve. All you will do is transfer all the force to the stem and move the valve up and down with each tap.

The general idea is to hold the valve up, preferably not by using the piston crown. When you tap the spring with a socket or punch, the valve should stay put and the collets will release. If you look at the top of the spring, you will see the spring, a retainer and two collets. The outside of the retainer is what you should be hitting. It can be done with a socket, round pipe or a blunt screwdriver etc.

 

[siteunseen]

Try prying the retainers down with a screwdriver or small pry bar. If you can get the pressure off with one hand and pick at the collets with the other hand. Lay a magnet next to them to catch them when they fall loose.

[Zed Head]

12 minutes ago, KDMatt said:

 but man I can tell you I'm using a LOT of force on that spring compress and this one really doesn't want to let go.  

Just a note - the socket and hammer are done with the valve head free, no compressor.  That breaks the retainer free from the keepers.  Then the spring compressor should easily press the retainer down so that you can remove the keepers.  Your writing implies that you're combining the steps.  Maybe causing binding. 

As I understand the various tips and tricks.

[siteunseen]

How did you get the rocker arms out without prying down on the springs retainer? I guess turning the lock nut and the adjusting nut all the way down, just thought of that, sorry.