Air Conditioning.....

[Redwing]

Hi All,

I have been recently diagnosed with bad allergies that keep me indoors during the summer heat and humidity.  To the point of I'm nearly going to pass out.  This is a real bummer for a fun living Z car driver, without air conditioning.  I have been given an increase of my social security with the passing of my husband.  Both bad and good news. This has enabled me to have some extra $ for things needed on my lovely 1976 Z, RedBird.  

I am asking you all, just what is involved with getting her non-working AC, or needing to be totally replaced AC, in her working?  How do I find someone that is skilled with Z's to do the work?  What do I need to know before starting this adventure?  I have asked Gwri8 if he knows a local person to do the work, as he is about 30 min. from me, and has told me good info before for local help.   But one needs more than just who to take her to.  That is why I'm asking the group. I need all the help I can garner for my precious Z..

I'm  very excited, because I would have to save all the $ for this project, conceivably by next summer it MIGHT happen.  .  But I just now discussed this with my son Bill, and he is willing to pay for the work and parts, with me paying him back in monthly installments.  Hippo hippo hooray!!!  How about that?????  Oh my gosh, I am soooo thankful for his assistance.  Can't hardly believe it.  Wowzeee!

Now... what can you all say to get me going in the right direction???  Ready, set, GO.....

As always, I am so thankful for this group and their excellent assistance!  Thanking each of you in advance.

With all my Z love,   

Jai

[Dave WM]

really depends on why its not working, if it still has Freon in it (gauges will tell) and If the compressor is not locked up then you would need to find out of the compressor cluch engages. If it does not that would be the 1st thing to sort out.

More likely the Freon has leaked out (very low pressure if any on gauges). If that is the case AND the compressor is not locked up, then pull a vacuum, see if it holds. If it does then add some dye and R-12 and see if the compressor will work (checking gauges again). Prob will but may leak which is why the dye. run it for a few days and look for the leak with UV.

After the leak is found (prob the condenser or shaft seal of the compressor) R&R it as needed, pull vac charge and you are good to go. The system is very simple just find an older mechanic, should be no problem.

 

[siteunseen]

The truth hurts so here goes, trade Red-Bird for a Camry or Accord unless your husband left a little insurance policy so you can buy one. I paid $2,000 for my '00 eight years ago and have 279,000 on it now. I could get in it right now and drive to drink coffee with Zed Head on the west cost in a day or two.

I love Zs but they're toys after 40 years.

[Dave WM]

 

[hr369]

How long ago did the a/c work?  I really enjoy working on my 78 z  a/c system because its so easy to get to every part. Thats including the expansion valve which is very easy to get to, unlike

many other cars. If i were a a/c pro, i'de jump at the chance of working on something so easy to repair.  Car a/c technology really hasn't changed much in the last 40 years so you don't

need an old school tech to understand it. 

 

There are a couple ways you could do this. The patch and pray method.

You could have a shop replace the obvious things first. Then charge with R12 and check for leaks with a leak detector.

OR

Go thru and fix all of the original system. Personally I like the quality of the factory a/c system. The only problem with using original equipment is the expansion valve is no longer

available new.  A used one has to be installed if yours is bad/stuck open or closed. I've got a couple used ones if you go that route.

I installed a used expansion valve 10 years ago and its still working good and I use my a/c every time I drive it. Even in the winter here in hawaii.

You could get a new aftermarket evap core that has a generic expansion valve. That's an additional 300$ part. Dash has to be pulled if you go this route.

The  a/c compressor is probably oily around the pulley. Thats where the hitachi's like to leak freon.  Have a rebuilt one installed and replace the condenser with a new cross-flow condenser.

New r134 type rubber hoses have to be fitted for the new condenser so that takes care of the old rubber hoses that needed to be replaced.

The condenser is the second area i would suspect a leak from a rock hitting it.  Then i'de convert it to r134 gas. The old r12 gas is very expensive.

OR

Install an all new Vintage Air system.

They have to pull the dashboard to put in a new evap core and you're probably looking at about $2000

 

Too bad Dave WM doesn't live closer.

 

Picture of new crossflow condenser I installed 10 years ago. You could probably fit one thats a little bigger than I got.

And lastly, if what you've got for a/c now is aftermarket, remove and replace with Vintage Air.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2016 by hr369

[Dave WM]

Nice cross flow. Yes the condenser is likely to have a rock strike. I see some new tube serpentine types that supposed to be a drop in replacement. If it was me I would do the least possible just to base line it, that would be pressure check to see if there is any R-12 in it now. If not pull a vacuum and put some R-12 in and see what happens. I really depends on how reliable you want it to be. Completely replacing everything and paying to do it will indeed cost a bundle just a rough break down in parts

$400-600 for a new compressor

$300 for a condensor

$20 for a drier

pray the evap and expansion valve are ok or

$400 for new combo with modern expansion valve

$60 for R12

so you can spend a $1000 in parts

figure 400-500 labor and you are getting into the 1500-2000 for a professional job.

OR

pull a vacuum, recharge with R-12 and dye and see how long it goes

$60 for the R-12 (get a can with dye)

maybe 2 hours labor (mostly waiting for the vacuum to pull down) 150$.

then see how it goes.

On mine the only leak I have is a slow leak at the condenser, so that will be replaced in the future (I bought a used good one).

My numbers are just ball park and I have no idea if my labor $ are even in the ball park, but I can tell you that I had a 92 ford explorer get all new stuff (stayed R-12) but for the evap and that was 1500$ at a AC shop. After that I decided I would learn more about it.

 

Oh and HR369 is correct I would be all over it to help you get it going if you were close, but NW Ga is something close to 600 miles.

Your best bet would be to take it to an AC shop that's been in bus for a while, and ask what would it cost just to check it out and try evacuate and recharge with R-12 if the compressor is not locked up. The biggest problem will be sourcing a OE drier, but they should be able to get an aftermarket to fit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Dave WM

[Chickenman]

Jai. Take a picture of the original receiver dryer. That is one of the harder parts to find. My factory system came with a receiver dryer that has offset inlets and outlets. One is on top and one is lower down on the body of the cylinder. That is the hard one to find and I believe is the factory type on 1975 and 1976 280z. Some may have inlets and outlets that are on the same level as each other. Those are quite a bit easier to find.

The R/D with offset fittings is a " Four Seasons #33286 ".  Very hard to find anyone who has stock on these. ( I've been looking for a year via Google and E-Bay ). Vendors advertise them, but never have stock. However, a company in Canada seems to have them " In Stock ". I ordered one from these guys and it is the correct one with offset fittings. $63.29 CDN plus shipping.

http://www.thewrenchmonkey.ca/products/auto-parts/four-seasons/33286/

The compressors are fairly robust.  My 1976 still has the original 40 year old Hitachi. It had been  overfilled and locked solid ( Hydraulic lock ) when I bought the car. After evacuating the system and refilling, it has held a charge for 2 years now. That surprised me. BTW, I found a good used 280Z AC compressor on E-Bay for $60. I bought it for spare parts. Re-manufactured compressors can be found for $300 as mentioned.

The hardest part may be sorting out the " Mickey Mouse "  AC Climate controls. The factory system uses Ruby Goldberg system of vacuum pots, hoses  Vacuum-Magnetic switches and several electrical switches, thermostats and relays that can cause grief. Lots and lots of places for vacuum leaks. You need someone who knows these systems and can work in a methodical manner to get all of the factory Climate controls working.  .

I used a jumper wire  hooked directly to 12v on the battery to test if the clutch operates. I made up a simple 4 foot long, 12 gauge jumper wire ( with ATO Fuse holder and a switch ) that I ran straight from the Battery to the compressor 12v lead. That way I could bypass ALL of the switches, relays, vacuum do-hickeys on the control side and just make sure the Compressor worked and it blew out fresh air. That saved me a Ton of grief. I knew the big stuff worked... it was just the small bits and bobs that needed fixing.

The Climate control Vacuum selector valve often leaks. It has silicone sealing grease in it that dries out. Can easily be fixed, but you have to be careful how you reassemble it.  It has to be " clocked " just right. Sarah ( FastWoman ) has an excellent " How to Fix " article on this simple, but finicky little switch.

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/32856-refurbishing-the-hvac-vacuum-selector-valve-in-a-1978-280z-useful-info/

I used R12A by RedTek to re-fill the system. R12 is extremely hard to find in Canada ( not to mention expensive )  and I didn't want the hassle of switching to R134. R12A is compatible with both R12 and R134 and the oil is compatible as well. No hassles... just evacuate, vacuum down system and add correct amount of R12A and R12A oil.

Another advantage of R12A is that it apparently blows " colder " than R134. R134 does not perform as well as R12 in older vehicle AC systems.

http://www.redtek.com/English/product.asp?ID=18

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Chickenman

[Redwing]

19 hours ago, siteunseen said:

The truth hurts so here goes, trade Red-Bird for a Camry or Accord unless your husband left a little insurance policy so you can buy one. I paid $2,000 for my '00 eight years ago and have 279,000 on it now. I could get in it right now and drive to drink coffee with Zed Head on the west cost in a day or two.

I love Zs but they're toys after 40 years.

Thanks for all the rain.      I could be wrong, but I do think that each Z has a life of their own.  Since RedBird  has been "well loved and cared for" in Scottsdale for most of her life and I'm working at continuing that lifestyle, perhaps she will do well beyond the expected.  But who am I to say anything against your eons of working on these Z cars?  You are most likely right.  I'm just a great optimist in love with my Z.  I guess we will just have to wait and see, eh?  

Oh my, hope I don't  have to eat those words.  Love sure makes us say and do silly things.  Tee hee...  

[siteunseen]

Your right Jai, love is blind. I've been down that road before and that's why I said what I did, experience.  I had an '81 911 that I loved and worked on constantly spending a life's savings. Sold it and bought a Camry then I was able to buy the Zs from cutting my losses with the Porsche.

I apologize for speaking my mind but as stated above you could spend $1,500 at least on a good a/c for Red Bird.  Hopefully a $100 worth of R-12a Red Tek will get you through the summer.

I just got a Nissan Sentra with cold air for $500.  It's not pretty but runs good and gets 35 MPG plus bone chilling air.  Cheap grocery getters are out there.

I don't see how you do it, I'm 47 and can hardly get out of mine.  Working on it myself saves me money but I turn around and spend that on pain pills and stay in bed the next day.

[Redwing]

Awww Site, no need to apologize.  I did say you were probably right, as I was runing to stick my head back in the sand.  I also agree with your probable parts expense list.  And since my son will be financing it with me paying back some each month...that parts list is just fine with me.  I NEED air conditioing!   That is where I can't stand it, or TRUTHFULLY I spend the next day in bed trying to breathe.

I was saving to tell all of you when I get the photo of the dryer that was requested.  But I know that just putting freon in will not work.  Firstly, the mechanic that worked on her in Jacksonville before I got her, tried that twice.  Nada.  I found out the reason. There is a long hose going from by the firewall to the nose where the pulley is, that is not connected at either end.  No workee!  

Hope your pain will be easier on you.  And thanks.

[hr369]

2 hours ago, Redwing said:

 There is a long hose going from by the firewall to the nose where the pulley is, that is not connected at either end.  No workee!  

Hope your pain will be easier on you.  And thanks.

Starting to sound like aftermarket.  Rubber hoses with irrigation clamps is the trademark of aftermarket.

 

[Dave WM]

Get lots of pictures under the hood so we can have a look at what you have.