Thank you President Clinton

[MDyer]

"Clinton is history..."

Apparently, HE hasn't got the word yet.

[Phacade]

Nope. That draft-dodger is still on television. And of course he gets to retain the title of "Mr President".

And as far as his legacy, lets not forget the office ploy. Every former President gets $100K per year until they die. They also get an office paid for by Uncle Sam. Most, like former President Carter, use it for good things like his Habitat for the Homeless Campaign. Unfortunatly there is not a cap on what it can cost the taxpayers. So Clinton gets an ungodly huge office in New York at the taxpayers cost. No doubt to be with his carpet-bagging wife-now-Senetor.

Bottom line: Clinton did more to hurt our nation than the last 20 Presidents. His name and legacy are a joke. And a deep embarrassment.

[TKR514]

Bambi Killer want's Martial Law?

Absolutely brilliant to do NOTHING for a few days. Now the entire world is chanting "Have the U.S. take control in Iraq, they have to something!". That's a big change in world opinion. Now we step up and restore order and everyone is thankful that the U.S./U.K/Aus. are imposing order to Iraq.

Outstandingly Brilliant!!!!

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by TKR514

Bambi Killer want's Martial Law?

Outstandingly Brilliant!!!!

Common sense required some form of control to be taken immediately. Unfortunately, in the days of no control there have been many university's, hospital's, libraries, and museum's stripped of everything of value. It is unconsionable that the "coalition" forces were not allowed to control the lawlessness or to even ATTEMPT to control it.

Strange though, we're STILL bragging about how the OIL FIELDS are secure.

Another example of what is really important to the leaders of this coalition who dictate what and where the forces are allowed to protect.

Actually it is incredibly STUPID to allow things such as this to occur. I repeat.... UNCONSIONABLE to allow the raping of the civilzation that we purportedly went to Iraq to SAVE from the evil dictator.

[MDyer]

Hospitals? absolutely should have been protected. Hospitals = health and life.

Universities and Libraries? Borderline. Protect if the mission is not compromised.

Museums? Protecting artifacts is ludicrous when you're busy trying to avoid getting shot.

[TKR514]

They raped themselves, we did not do the looting.

Yet it bugged me that they let it go for a few days, but the same thing happends here (U.S.) when the Bulls or Lakers win a championship. THERE ARE NOT enough troops in Bagdad to control 4-6 million folks 24/7. Same in the USA, there are not enough cops to stop things if enough folks decide to go crazy.

It's terrible, but you can't blame the cops/troops.

Sure the oil filds are secure, that's because they are very hard to loot AND are generally away from the people (a small number of troops can stop a small number of people.

I feel sorry that the Iraqi's are steeling from each other. I also feel sad when people riot and burn down their own neighborhoods.

It is brilliant to not start shooting people if they steal a chair or an air conditioner. If we did shoot them for theft, how would we be different from Sadam? Not much...

Hope all settles down there soon.

[Bambikiller240]

It is not terribly difficult to stop the looting from sites like hospitals, museums, universities. You take control of the ground. You do not allow entry. If you couldn't predict it starting, you stop the CONTINUANCE of the looting by taking charge.

Please reread my earlier post, I DO NOT BLAME THE TROOPS/COPS. I blame the leadership who ordered them to stand by and allow it. There was very little shooting and fighting going on in these areas, so that is not an issue. You can't shoot people when your arms are full of stolen computer, medical equipment and antiquties.

Regarding the museums, your same agruement would also validate the Nazi pillaging of the great museums of France, Italy and the other European countries in WW2 right? Allowing the national treasures to disappear into the hands of thieves is not right. Period. Yes the Iraqi civilians (some of them) did it to their own country, but that does not make it right or mean that ALL civilians of Iraqi wanted that to happen.

"It is brilliant to not start shooting people if they steal a chair or an air conditioner. If we did shoot them for theft, how would we be different from Sadam? Not much... "

No wonder the people of america loot their own neighborhoods. People with that attitude are ENCOURAGING the behavior by looking the other way. UNCONSIONABLE!

[MDyer]

You said it all by stating that the Nazi's (invaders) did it.

The French didn't loot their own museums; nor did the coalition pillage the Iraqi museums.

[Dreco]

Can you imagine what the anti-american movement would do with a picture of American forces arresting the people we have stated that we are liberating??? That's why your not seeing a use of force on the looters.

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by MDyer

You said it all by stating that the Nazi's (invaders) did it.

The French didn't loot their own museums; nor did the coalition pillage the Iraqi museums.

OK, Yes, Mike it is different in that respect, I did exagerate the analogy. Perhaps a bit too much. Acknowledged.

But to allow it to occur served no purpose whatsoever, did it? Anyone one in any form of law enforcement, be it Martial law, or Civilian Police can tell you that it is far easier to MAINTAIN control of a situation than to REGAIN control of a situation. An attempt should have been made to maintain control of the population, rather than to sit on hands and allow the lawlessness to take hold and escalate. I fault the leaders (at the VERY top) for that. I'm quite sure that the military leaders on site wanted to maintain control as it would have been in ther best intereest.

PS DRECORD, arresting them for looting would be understood by ALL civilized countries. Arresting them for nothing would not be.

PPS Screw the Anti-American movement, Looting is Looting.

[TKR514]

Argh! I guess no one reads history.

The French did indeed loot their own city in 1789 in an overthrow.

I can site other instances in Russia, India, China, and elsewhere in the middle east of widespread looting AFTER a dictatorship/empire is toppled. It happends and damn near impossible to stop as history has shown.

I'm personally glad that we now have adults in the leadership that seem to have things well understood. I won't blame OUR leadership yet.

If you wanna blame someone, go blame the "human shields" that were protecting fascilities or the millions of Iraquis that stood by and let their hospitals, etc be looted.

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by TKR514

Argh! I guess no one reads history.

The French did indeed loot their own city in 1789 in an overthrow.

I can site other instances in Russia, India, China, and elsewhere in the middle east of widespread looting AFTER a dictatorship/empire is toppled. It happends and damn near impossible to stop as history has shown.

My specific reference was to WW2 & Nazi's. Didn't mean to exclude any other events. In case you hadn't noticed civilization has come a long way since 1789. What happened in the past does not make what is happening in the present acceptable.

Originally posted by TKR514

I'm personally glad that we now have adults in the leadership that seem to have things well understood. I won't blame OUR leadership yet.

What a crock. Good thing I'm wearing hip-boots because the BS is really deep in that statement. I suppose you would consider Bush a foreign affairs expert and/or a great military mind? :stupid:

Originally posted by TKR514

If you wanna blame someone, go blame the "human shields" that were protecting fascilities or the millions of Iraquis that stood by and let their hospitals, etc be looted.

What the hell to human sheilds have to do with anything? (except providing a handy aiming point for weapons to be trained upon) One act of stupidity does not mean that other acts of stupidity should be tolerated. The citizens of Iraq have no prower (except those in the military) and even they have no authority after the regime is toppled. Our Military forces had the authority (as victors) and the means to ATTMEPT to maintain order, yet nothing was done.