"European Springs"

[tanny]

I noticed a description for "European springs" in the MSA catalogue and was wondering if anyone has tried these and how they worked out. It says they only "slightly lower" the car: enough to need modifications to get camber back to stock value? Ride? Any info or speculation would be appreciated. Thanks, Victor.

[Marty Rogan]

Tanny, I recently acquired some Euro Springs, but I won't get around to putting them in for a few more weeks. They ar esupposed to lower the car by 3/4 of an inch. I am wondering if that is a enough to mess things up too. Have not heard an answer to that on these springs. Lowering by 2" I know is a problem.

Marty

[2ManyZs]

If it's an inch or less it shouldn't be a problem as far as camber is concerned. Actually the car will benefit from a slight increase in negative camber from stock.

FWIW, on my first Z I had a set of springs from Impact Parts(don't remember the manufacturer, probably not even in business now) that lowered the car between 1 and 1 1/2 inches with no increased wear in the tires at all. It did give me a bit more negative camber, but probably no more than 1 degree.

Will they be stiffer? Yes, but if they are less than a 15% increase in spring rates, it shouldn't be too harsh on the street.. But then again, a lot of times it depends on how bad the roads are in your area... Chicago area never was known for smooth roads was it Marty?

Now a 25% increase in spring rates would probably be a bit harsh on all but the smoothest roads....

[Marty Rogan]

I am glad to hear the springs won't screw up the alignment. From what I understand the Euros are between 11-18% stiffer. I got the Stage I's, so I am guessing they are closer to the 11%. Should provide a little flatter cornering without significant additonal harshness.

Smooth roads, and Chicago don't belong in the same sentence. It is the land of the pothole! My CD player skips now when I hit an expansion joint or similar buckle in the road. I really need to find a way to anchor that thing securely. Just had not looked forward to digging into the dash.

Marty

[HS30-H]

Marty,

Do those springs you found have any part numbers on them?

The reason I ask is that here in the European market the cars came with Factory spring rates and that was it. Just about 100% of cars purchased new here had the spring rate that the car came from the Factory with. There were "Opt" spring numbers quoted in the UK-market Factory Parts List, and these were obviously a higher spring rate. The same list also quoted numbers for a "Non Eur." spring set - which I guess must be the slightly softer ones that you had in the USA?

I've never heard of anyone over here specifying the "Opt" springs on a new car. I think this was mainly because most of the dealers either didn't know about them or that they did not want to complicate matters........

The Japanese market had different springs yet again for their different models.

If you have part numbers I can cross reference them and give you the spring rates and how they compare, if its of interest?

Alan T.

( ps - I sent you an answer to your PM about your Spring purchase, which I think you have not opened? ).

[2ManyZs]

Here's the list out of my old "How to Hot Rod" book which has most of the Nissan Competition parts available way back when....

Not sure if the ones that Marty has are the same part numbers or not, but you can get an indea of what was available here from the Competition Department in the past.

"European springs (Stage 1)

54010-E4107 RF spring 100lbs

54010-E4106 LF spring 100lbs

54020-E4201 Rear springs 112lbs

"European springs (Stage 2)

54010-E8101 RF spring 122lbs

54010-E8100 LF spring 122lbs

54020-E8100 Rear springs 140lbs

[HS30-H]

Thanks 2Many,

I've actually got all of those numbers too.

What I'm interested in are the numbers that are on Marty's recently acquired springs, as I have some other part numbers with different spring rates that I'm not sure of. It might be interesting to cross-ref them.

I don't have them to hand at the moment, and as its nearly 2am now I'd better not start digging around for the Parts Lists as the Mrs will throw something at me!.............

Alan T.

[2ManyZs]

I kinda figured you would already have those numbers since they were a factory issued part. I guess the big question now is, whether the springs they are selling now as the "Euro" springs are actually Nissan parts or aftermarket supplied parts with the same name.....

Somewhere around here I have a book that gives the stock spring rates, and if I remember right, the Stage 1's are nearly the same as the stock springs... they were more of a lowering spring than a stiffer spring rate. I'll look around here and see if I can dig that up while you snooze....

[HS30-H]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

[tanny]

I have about 2 miles of dirt roads to navigate to my house, so I am interested in as soft a spring as will work. Not really interested in going around corners exceedingly fast, more interested in saving my kidneys, which are already having problems without being hammered by these high rate springs the car has. Dirt roads aren't friendly to a car with 4" ground clearance either. The camber on the rear is so bad the car looks knock kneed. Even I can tell the tires will wear out too quickly at those angles. Thanks for all the info on these springs. It sounds like that is the way I will be going, since stock springs are pretty much impossible to come by even if I could afford the price on a new set.

[Marty Rogan]

Alan,

Thanks for the PM, I did get it, but did not notice it for a day or two.

The springs I got are the "real deal". They still have the Nissan P/N stickers on them that match the #'s 2MZ's listed for the Stage I springs.

From What I have heard, NISMO was selling Stage I and Stage II springs in the US as a performance option/upgrade. They were supposedly the same spring rates as what was delivered on the Euro Spec cars. Euro cars were reported as having higher spring rates than the US spec cars. Allan, maybe you could confirm that. It would be interesting to confirm if that was true and how much of a difference there was in spring rates.

Even in todays modern cars, manufacturers routinely deliver car to Europe with higher spring rate than US spec cars. They feel that most Americans would not like the ride of stiffer springs. I really hate that. We seem to always get cheated out of getting the best performing cars!

At any rate, it should be a huge improvement over 33 year old bushings and springs.

Marty

[HS30-H]

Sorry for my tardiness in getting back to this thread with the data I promised.

I've come across something strange and need to check it out before putting up numbers that are not correct and possibly misleading people.

Its a couple of part numbers that are really similar to eachother, and look like they have been misprinted. Nothing earth-shatteringly important in the scheme of things, but I don't want to post numbers that might be wrong.

I've asked a friend to cross-reference his own data and we'll see if its a misprint or just a coincidence.

Not that anyone's holding their breath, I'm sure.............

Alan T.