Too much power for current clutch

[EuroDat]

Cliff, Extra material could make a difference in price, but I think imho it's coming down to demand. More 280Z's and 280ZX's out there and to fit that pressure plate in the 240Z/260Z you would just need the matching collar.

The clutch forks, slave cylinders, and non-adjustable or adjustable push rods all have the same dimensions.

It's the pressure plate / collar combo that derails most people.

[siteunseen]

16 hours ago, Diseazd said:

Not true.....The 240Z 4 speed (early and late) trannies,  the 280 and 280ZX  4 speed and 5 speed trannies......all are exactly the same dimensions. You can use either the 240Z clutch or 280Z in any of them. The important thing to remember is if you use a 240 Z clutch, use a 240Z collar and if you use the 280Z clutch use the 280Z collar. This is because the 280 pressure plate is narrower than the 240. I use the 240 Z clutch arm (with the hole) with the 240Z clutch and the 280Z clutch arm (for the self adjusting slave cylinder) with the 280Z clutch, but that's probably not necessary.......you can probably use the self adjusting slave cylinder and arm with either clutch....just not sure. All of my 5 Z's are F54 blocks and some 240Z trannies and some 280ZX trannies, but all use 240 Z clutches, 240 Z collars, early arms and adjustable slave cylinders......

So the OP can buy the $112 Exedy clutch kit #6009 for a 280 and use on his 240 4 speed instead of the $186 one for 240s?  When I check fitment on amazon.com it says they won't work on a 240.  I would go with your advice before amazon.com's but am wondering why the discrepancies in the two?  Not a huge savings but cheaper nonetheless.

 

 

[Diseazd]

Cliff....IMO, everyone tries to make this more complicated than need be. No matter the tranny (240Z or 280Z or Zx, 4 or 5 speed, A or B ) they are all the same dimension. The important fact is that the geometry of the clutch arm is correct. Simply stated if you use the shorter 280 Z or ZX clutch, you need to use a 280 collar (taller)to get the proper distance from the flywheel to collar fingers that ZH mentions. Since the 240Z's clutch pressure plate is taller, you need a (shorter) collar to get the same distance......simple as that. You don't need to worry about measuring anything.....280 clutch used with 280 collar works.....240 clutch with 240 collar works....simple as that....in any of the above mentioned trannies (2+2 not included). I have had success with the taller 240 clutches and use them in all my cars since I don't want to mix and match. I've never installed a 280 clutch, so can't comment on which is better.....love my 240's though. Cooper didn't know where the slave cylinder was, so I think we should keep it as simple as possible. He needs to buy either a 240 or 280 clutch with a matching collar. He can measure the collar that comes out and buy the corresponding clutch if he wants to save $12.00 for the collar....his choice. And as far as a flywheel goes, I think he should stick with a refinished stock flywheel IMHO since remember not only he couldn't find the slave cylinder, but still hasn't even adjusted it yet to find out if that fixes his problem!  BTW....Throw out bearings are the same for either clutch you use. Also, he should order from MSA IMO....they can match his order with the correct collar whichever route he goes.....and regarding your question above....yes either Amazon clutch will work in the 240Z tranny with the correct corresponding collar......short is 280 ......tall (more expensive) is 240.

 

[zKars]

The correct dimension from the flywheel friction surface up to the tip of the collar fingers where the actuation arm touches it is 92 mm +/- 2. So no matter what clutch you buy/have, the total stack height is what matters. Get a collar to get 92 with whatever clutch you buy. 

[siteunseen]

I agree with you on keeping it simple for Cooper but there's obviously something different about the clutches from '70-'74 and '75-'83.  I'm just curious as to what it is because I'm with you on them being the same but the suppliers seem to feel different.  From MSA;

 

[Zed Head]

Anybody got the parts CD or fiche collection?  It would be interesting to see which factory parts interchange over the years.

1974 had the non-adjustable slave rod, but it's lumped in with 1970 which has the adjustable rod.  And that's the Type B and the Type A transmissions.  Could be that the suppliers just don't want to get in to the interchangeability mess and are relabeling parts as different when they're not.  I'd hate to be the guy on the phone trying to explain this.

[Diseazd]

Right....code 21-2330 is 70-74 240Z and 260Z......use 21-2121 collar for 70-74 240Z and 260Z. Code 21-2331 is for 75-83 280 Z or ZX non turbo.....use 21-2122 collar for 75-78 coupe  79-83 non turbo.....as Zcars mentioned above these will give you approximately 92 mm from friction surface to collar fingers. 280 or 280ZX use 280 collar.....240 Z and 260Z use 240Z collar as stated in a great big paragraph above. 2+2 and turbo's are different combo.

[siteunseen]

I guess that's what it is, easier marketing but why the price difference?  Maybe the tube of lube is taller or shorter? 

EDIT: I didn't get a new collar with my kits.

[Zed Head]

8 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

EDIT: I didn't get a new collar with my kits.

And that's where it all goes wrong for people.  They buy for a car that has probably had the clutch replaced several times.

There are still kits that come with collars out there.  Brute on Rockauto.  At least their picture shows a collar/sleeve.

[Diseazd]

39 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

I agree with you on keeping it simple for Cooper but there's obviously something different about the clutches from '70-'74 and '75-'83.  I'm just curious as to what it is because I'm with you on them being the same but the suppliers seem to feel different.  From MSA;

 

Here's the two clutches.....the 280 requires the taller collar to equal approximately 92mm. There is a difference, but if you match collar to clutch, either will work in the 70 to 83 trannies (turbo and 2+2 excluded).

[Zed Head]

Here's some more load for Cooper's brain.  You can buy the collar's separately.  The pivot balls, that screw in to the transmission, are identical though. 

http://www.zcarsource.com/clutch-collar-240z-260z-280z-280zx-300zx_8_56460.html

http://www.zcarsource.com/clutch-fork-240z-260z-280z-280zx-300zx_8_56450.html

 

[siteunseen]

Sorry to overwhelm a new member Cooper but essentially what we're saying is you should drop the transmission first, get the collar off and see what you have before ordering your clutch kit.  Here's something that shows the 92mm measurement they're talking about.  Best of luck with your 240Z, they are amazing cars.