Become a Porsche Guy?

[mentalite]

The search for a new to me Z seems to be an exercise in futility here in the mid-atlantic area.  Not many come up for sale and the ones that do seem overpriced.  I want a car that I can drive right away and tinker with a little, but not have to do a restoration.  I've looked at cars priced in the low 20's expecting that these would be well sorted and need very little.  Wrong!  I've found poorly concealed rust in this price range, too.  It seems that with the rise in value, people are painting any rusty piece of crap they can find to make a quick buck.  Blatant shoddy work is everywhere, regardless of price range.

In my frustration I started widening my search and discovered that the 996 era Porsche 911s are dirt cheap, relatively speaking.  If one is willing to spend in the high teens/low 20s like I am, you can find a well maintained, moderate mileage cabriolet which has over 300HP.  If you're willing to drive a 'chick car' you can do even cheaper with a Boxster.  These cars have no rust issues, no cracked dashes, no undercoating hiding trouble, and are fun as hell by all accounts.  They do have their issues, like a bearing that tends to fail and takes the engine with it.  Google Porsche crate engines if you want a shock.  A Porsche mechanic tells me that $3K will get the bearing replaced with an upgraded version and a new clutch assembly as well.  Cost of parts and repairs is high on a Porsche so one still has to be diligent, but every Z I've looked at was looking for $3K or more to be spent on it, too, usually on time consuming body work.

Porsche purists apparently don't like this particular era ('98 - '04 I think) because they are the first 911s that use a water cooled engine, the headlights are ugly, and are seen as the first mass produced model.  This is keeping the price low on what seem to be incredible cars.

Any Porsche guys out there?  Any other potential Z drivers seeing the same thing?

[mentalite]

Here's a representative example that didn't take long to track down:

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/5876156526.html

[psdenno]

As a Porsche and Z owner, I can agree with your statement about the high cost of Porsche repairs.  It's interesting that the 911 link you posted states the car has a bit over 60,000 miles.  Could be the owner checked the cost of the 60K service and decided to get rid of the car.  Not uncommon.  Operating cost per mile on the Z is significantly lower than the Porsche.  For the budget you mentioned, you should be able to find a good west coast Z and ship it East, if a Z is what you really want.

dennis

[RS02]

I purchased a Z in Texas and shipped it to Michigan. But mine is a huge pile of trouble and it needs all kind of work so you probably not interested in this method. MR2 sw20 was the one I was considering to get if I can't get a Z. They're fun and cheap and easier to work with (Not if you want to work on the engine). 

[psdenno]

49 minutes ago, RS02 said:

I purchased a Z in Texas and shipped it to Michigan. But mine is a huge pile of trouble and it needs all kind of work so you probably not interested in this method. MR2 sw20 was the one I was considering to get if I can't get a Z. They're fun and cheap and easier to work with (Not if you want to work on the engine). 

A huge benefit of belonging to a group like this is that if you buy a Z over the phone or on line and can't check it in person, there's probably a member of the group who lives close to the seller and is willing to to check the car for you.  I've checked cars in the past.

Dennis

[ksechler]

The question is, "What do you want?"

If you have 20K to spend and you want a fast, trouble free car you could pick up a 350 or 370z.  I just found a 370z NISMO for 25K on CL in Doylestown.  It'll give those Porches a run for their money and spend a lot more time on the road in the next 20 years for a lot fewer dollars.  

[siteunseen]

I had Zs in high school and then a water cooled 944 when I was 21. Then graduated to an air cooled 911 when I was 29. After my ego fell to my common sense I got back into Zs at 40. Best decision for me, I enjoy working on my Z as much as driving it. Here's my view, are you  willing to pay or do you want to do some work yourself? Newer Porsches aren't very friendly for DIY'ers from all I've heard. My '82 SC was a simple 911 and it was a pain to work on.

[grannyknot]

Porsches all sound like Volkswagen Beetles

[Patcon]

I would love to have an early to mid 80's 911. One of the best handling cars I have even driven, if you can avoid the "snappy" rear end. Those cars are quickly becoming unaffordable, but the real deal killer was the $900+ clutch kits, etc, etc. The parts to keep a Porsche running are just silly expensive, and if you can't do the work yourself add $90+ an hour for labor. If you keep looking you can find a nice Z car for the money you are willing to spend.

I agree you should enlist help from the forum if possible to check out cars that are not local to you...but if you find a good deal (verify) don't hesitate it won't last

[mentalite]

7 hours ago, psdenno said:

A huge benefit of belonging to a group like this is that if you buy a Z over the phone or on line and can't check it in person, there's probably a member of the group who lives close to the seller and is willing to to check the car for you.  I've checked cars in the past.

Dennis

This is good to know.  I may have to employ this method.  I don't much care for the idea of buying a car sight unseen and getting into a situation like RS02 is experiencing.

The water cooled Porsche is just an idea at this point and I think I'll also look around for twin turbo 300ZXs.  I really liked those when they came out and they're price competitive with the 240Z.

I hesitate to do this just in case the seller is a member here, but here's a nice looking 240 a couple hours away from me.  Assuming it really is in the condition it appears to be, does anyone have an opinion on the price?

7 hours ago, ksechler said:

The question is, "What do you want?"

A fun car to drive.  I like tinkering with minor repairs, but not at all into a major project.  I have a soft spot for old Zs, but so far they aren't fitting this idea on a working man's budget.

 

5 hours ago, siteunseen said:

Here's my view, are you  willing to pay or do you want to do some work yourself? Newer Porsches aren't very friendly for DIY'ers from all I've heard. My '82 SC was a simple 911 and it was a pain to work on.

Both.  Being a pain to work on is definitely a consideration.  I like the simplicity of an old Z.  I like the idea of 300HP too!  Maybe I need to find a nice 240 with an RB26 in it!  No, can't to that....back out of budget again.

[Mikes Z car]

I made the Z choice decades ago due to the fun/price ratio, good looks etc.  If I got desperate for a cheap sportscar I see 944s on craigslist cheap.  Don't prefer the styling though.

[Zed Head]

You're considering several different categories of car.  The 240Z is the basic, no frills, carb'ed "pure" sports car that Nissan intended.  A 280Z is essentially a refined 240Z, with EFI and its associated blandness.  A 300ZX is more like a modern car, smooth, quiet, even more bland.  The Porsches are a different kind of car, more "engineered" than the Z's, which tend to take the simple route to accomplish an objective.

These are all "old" cars though, compared to the computer-controlled vehicles today.  You're going to have to learn on the fly to keep any of them running well, unless you find a shop nearby that can work on one.  You might consider that in your choice.  Find a shop that can help, then choose a car that fits the shop.  Or pick the car you want and learn how to make it work.  Some of the ideas you're throwing out are a bit exotic and knowledge-intensive, like the RB26 or the twin turbo 300ZX.  Even a carb'ed 240Z takes some learning.