Interesting Historical Information Indicating Z was for US Market

[240260280]

From an interesting blog in Japan regarding the design of the S30Z and the design team.... along with some very uncomfortable corporate politics/interplay:
 

   "In 1965, it was headquarters' decision to develop a safe, closed-body sports car due to requests from Nissan USA. The high-level design specifications were reviewed and, in the fall of '65,  The Z plan (a next-generation sports car design development plan) was started."

   '６５年になると米国日産からの要望などから、より安全性の高いクローズド・ボディのスポーツカーを開発すべきと本社の意向が固まり、設計上層部で基本仕様を検討し、’６５年秋にマルＺ計画（次期スポーツカーのデザイン開発計画）がスタートします。
この時にエクステリア・デザインを担当するスタジオとして第４スタジオが発足します。
メンバーは松尾、吉田、千葉の３人です。

http://mizma-g.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2011/12/s30zzdatsun-240.html

Edited December 17, 2016 by 240260280

[HS30-H]

How does this extrapolate as "...indicating Z was for US market"...?

The Mizma Gikoh blog is a one-man operation, and we've discussed it on this forum several times in the past. Quoting one excerpt - out of context - is not really a good idea. Some of it is good, some of it is a little out of date. 

Nissan's 270KK/Maru Z/S30-series Z was conceived, designed, styled, engineered and produced as a family of variants intended to satisfy the demands of several different markets. The biggest single *potential* market was the United States of America, as indeed it was for any number of Sports/GT cars from other manufacturers including MG, Triumph, Austin-Healey, Jaguar, Porsche and even exotica from Lamborghini, Maserati and Ferrari, but it's not very often you'll hear anybody saying that those European cars were conceived, designed and engineered "for the US market", is it?      

[sweatybetty]

11 hours ago, 240260280 said:

 '６５年になると米国日産からの要望などから、より安全性の高いクローズド・ボディのスポーツカーを開発すべきと本社の意向が固まり、設計上層部で基本仕様を検討し、’６５年秋にマルＺ計画（次期スポーツカーのデザイン開発計画）がスタートします。
この時にエクステリア・デザインを担当するスタジオとして第４スタジオが発足します。
メンバーは松尾、吉田、千葉の３人です。

 

huh?

[DatsunZGuy]

  この「サーフアイランダース」は、阿部氏の声掛けて近年再結成され、ライブ活動をされているとのこと。

Nissan had a house band called the "Young Nights" that would play at corporate parties?

That would have been quite the sight

 

[Mike]

Moved this to the history forum.

[240260280]

• 1952 Datsun produced their     first sports car, the DC-3 "Datsun 20" RHD.  They made 70, sold only 30, then converted the remaining 40 back to trucks.Japan was not ready for a Nissan sports car in 1952. 
• 1959-60 Datsun produced their second sports car, the SP211 "Datsun 1000" RHD.  They made only 20. Again Japan was not ready for a Nissan sports car in 1959.
• 1960-61 Datsun produced their  third sports car, the SPL212 "Datsun 1200" LHD  They made 228. Nissan skipped the domestic market and made all (100%) for the USA market.
• 1961 Datsun produced their    fourth sports car, the SPL213 "Datsun Fairlady" LHD  They made 217. Nissan again skipped the domestic market and made all (100%) for the USA market.
• 1962 Datsun produced their     fifth sports car, the SPL310/SP310 "Datsun 1500/Fairlady" LHD/RHD. They made 6460.  ~4160 (64%) for USA market.
• 1965 Datsun produced their     sixth sports car, the SPL311/SP311 "Datsun 1600/Fairlady" LHD/RHD. An iteration of the SLP-310.  They made 27,400.  ~26,430 (96%) for USA market . The first successful sports car sales!!!
• 1965 Detroit officials were called to testify on automobile safety before the Senate Government Operations Subcommittee on Executive Reorganization chaired by Sen. Abraham A. Ribicoff.
• 1966 Changes in USA safety regulations make continued production of convertibles more challenging. National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 gave regulators until January 31, 1967 to develop federal motor vehicle safety standards that were practical, stated in objective terms, and met the need for motor vehicle safety.
• 1966 August. All Datsun 240Z sketches and clay models from designers up to August 1966 were convertibles. Model "A11" had an optional hard top affixed similar to the one used by designers to retrofit to the SPL310 (Figure 2 below). It is clear the direction of design changed at this point.
• In Q3/Q4 of 1966, Datsun designers made their first 240z model with a full hard top. It was design model "C3.
• Oct. 11, 1967 Federal Highway Administration (FHA), the National Traffic Safety Bureau (NTSB) issues an Advanced Notice of Proposed Rule Making (ANPRM) on 47 issues, including roof intrusion, seeking public comment.
• 1967 Datsun produced their seventh sports car, the SRL311/SPR311 "Datsun 2000/Fairlady" LHD/RHD  It was again an iteration of the SPL-310. They made 14,990. ~12,880 (86%) for USA market.

 

 
Figure 1. Datsun Production Sports Cars Preceding the 240z

 

 

After a testing of the waters for selling sports cars in Japan in 1952 and again in 1959, it was clear that the domestic market was not ready for sports cars.  Datsun immediately re-focused on the USA market for selling sports cars. For the next two model years from 1960 to 1962 they produced only LHD models and only for the US market. Although the market and production numbers were small. Nissan management had chosen to go after the USA sports car market early on.  Unfavourable post-war trade barriers with many other countries may have also shaped Nissan's export focus on the USA at this very early point. Countries in Europe traditionally manufactured small cars where as in the USA cars were typically large.  Having small Japanese cars enter the market in the USA presented nearly zero competition with the large car manufacturers however, in Europe small Japanese imports would have competed directly with all manufactures so protectionist tariffs were maintained against Japan.

 

In 1962, Datsun re-designed/styled the convertible. This new design (SPL-310 Datsun 1500) remained relatively unchanged until all convertible production ended in 1970.

In 1965 and 1966, production numbers were up, and sales in the USA were growing exponentially however, changes in the safety requirements for automobile design in the USA were well underway.  In 1965, preliminary documents from the USA Govt. the creation of new Govt. automotive safety agencies, and discussions throughout the industry & media pointed to significant safety challenges to come for manufacturers of convertibles.  At this time, manufacturers had no details regarding the extent of the new rules to come so it was anyone's guess as to how difficult it would eventually become to produce a convertible that would meet the impending new requirements. The fact that new roll-over tests were required made convertibles seem vulnerable to failing this test.

Immediately after the US Govt. began the process to increase safety requirements, Nissan management began to re-risk and focus on developing a new enclosed coupe. Up to that point, all Datsun sports cars were convertibles*. To continue expanding into the USA market without risk, it was clear that a convertible was not the way. A coupe would guarantee a path through the impending stricter safety requirements.   In fact, Datsun did not significantly change the design of their 1500 sports car beyond that point in time apart from some engine changes and safety compliance changes.  It was clear they were done with it apart from churning out more as it was most profitable to continue an existing product. Almost immediately after the new regulations warning, contingency stop-gap tests occurred (in case the safety requirements changes came earlier). One such test in August of 1966 was the fitting of a large hard-top roof to their popular SPL-310 convertible.

 
Figure 2. Datsun SP-310 Testing Optional Hard Top August 1966
 

Figure 3. Datsun 240z Convertible Prototype Model "A11" with Optional Hard Top ~July, 1966

It should be noted that during the design and development of the 240z, the designers and engineers at Nissan had to keep abreast of the evolving USA safety standards.  As mentioned by Mr. Takeshi Kume Tamura, the Chief designer of the 240z during its final stages prior to going to a prototype: "During this time, design changes occurred such as significant changes to size of the complete body, modifications to the fenders, due to the change of the wheel, and changes to the design to match American safety standards". 

By the end of the 60's Datsun had produced ~ 50,000 convertible sports cars . The expected stringent safety restrictions did not materialize however Datsun had moved away from the convertible and completely stopped convertible production in 1970. 

Of all Datsun Sports Cars produced prior to the 240Z, approximately  44,000 (88%) were LHD sold in the USA market.

Whereas sales in the USA market grew substantially for Nissan throughout the 60's, domestic sales did not significantly change. Nissan management would have observed this pattern as it evolved through out all of the 60's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

From the graph below, it is clear to see that domestic sales of Datsun sports cars (convertible and S30) did not show significant growth for the convertibles or even later with the S30. On the other hand, the convertible grew in the USA market and the 240z design exploded in the USA market.

Prior to the 240z, the convertible sport cars growth was only in the  USA.

1969-1970 production crossover from the convertible to 240z is easy to see. One product ramped up and one ramped down, This was partly due to sharing of some production facilities.

Production for both convertibles and the 240z  confirm Nissan's management made a wise decision to go after the USA sports car market.

Low sales in the domestic market did not warrant the need for so many iterations of the S30 platform however the iterations were done and they seem to be more for the requirements of automobile racing that Nissan was involved in since Mr. K's stimulus in the 1950's. Rally racing, the avid road racing scene in Japan, and the success of road racing roadsters in the USA during the 1960's were the prime drivers for small quantities of variants to the standard model sold in Japan.  The basic models sold in Japan and the USA came with L engines (2.0 litre for the domestic market and 2.4 litre for the USA).

Nissan's determination for the 240z to succeed in the USA market is exemplified by the additional pre-release road testing they did in North America above and beyond the their standard product development and certification testing done in Japan.

 

Nissan's sports car sales success to this day is traceable to the fact they had chosen to go after the USA sports car market at an early stage rather than most other manufacturers in Europe who focused on local markets first.   This ultimately shaped Nissan's continued success where as many others failed to make a sports car for the USA market like the 240z.  

 

 Nissan successfully designed for, and successfully sold in the largest sports car market place in the world... the USA.

 

 

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

General Service Administration (GSA) Published the following 17 new standards on June 30,1965.  More were to come.

1. Anchorage for seat belt assemblies.
2. Padded dash and visors.
3. Recessed dash instruments and control devices.
4. Impact-absorbing steering wheel and column displacement.
5. Safety door latches and hinges.
6. Anchorage of seats.
7. Four-way flasher.
8. Safety glass.
9. Dual operation of braking system.
10. Standard bumper heights.
11. Standard gear quadrant, P-R-N-D-L, automatic transmission.
12. Sweep design of windshield wipers-washers.
13. Glare reduction surfaces.
14. Exhaust emission control system.
15. Tire and safety rim.
16. Backup lights.
17. Outside rear view mirror.

 

FEDERAL REGISTER NOTICES:
31 (March 8, 1966): 4091, GSA proposes safety standards for Federally purchased vehicles.
31 (July 15, 1966): 9631, GSA final rule, safety standards for Federally purchased vehicles.
31 (December 3, 1966): 15212, NPRM for the initial FMVSS.
32 (February 3, 1967): 2414, final rule for the initial FMVSS, including FMVSS Nos. 103, 105, 108, 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210 and 301.
[Notable technologies are seat belts; energy absorbing steering assemblies; door locks, latches, and hinges; occupant protection in interior impact; dual cylinders /
Front disc brakes; and trailer conspicuity tape.]
32 (October 13, 1967): 14278, ANPRM to consider regulations to limit roof crush and intrusion.
32 (December 16, 1967): 18033, final rule extending FMVSS No. 108 to cars and LTVs.
32 (December 28, 1967): 20865, NPRM to establish FMVSS No. 202 for passenger cars.
33 (February 14, 1968): 2945, final rule establishing FMVSS No. 202 for passenger cars.
33 (August 16, 1968): 11652, final rule establishing FMVSS No. 212 for passenger cars. [Adhesive windshield bonding]
33 (October 5, 1968): 14971, ANPRM announcing the intention to regulate side door strength.
33 (December 11, 1968): 18386, first NPRM proposing FMVSS No. 214.
34 (January 24, 1969): 1150, final rule extending FMVSS No. 206 to trucks, buses and multipurpose passenger vehicles.
34 (July 2, 1969): 11148, initial ANPRM to consider air bags or other automatic protection.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Below the next few photos are Roof Crush Testing and Policy Development in the USA that Nissan would have been aware of with their Eastern USA Vice President's  Mr. Soichi Kowazoe's Liasons with DC  (It is interesting how this timeline fits with 240z prototyping and affected roof height changes during the 240z development process):
 

Measuring Roof Height as per FMVSS 208 & 216 (Passenger Restraining in Crash/Roll Over and Roof Crush)

 

 

FMVSS 208 Roll Over Testing 240z with DOHC Engine. (Note Split Exhaust)

FYI: Prototype "CA-4" 240z with Split Exhaust

In 1962 the Impact and Roll-Over Test Procedures Subcommittee of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) was formed in order to develop test procedures for evaluating vehicle structural integrity under various types of impacts. (Deadly By Design reference 14) The subcommittee's members included representatives from General Motors (and Fisher Body - a division of General Motors), Ford Motor Company, Chrysler Corporation, Kaiser Jeep Corporation, International Harvester Company, Volkswagen of America, Inc. and American Motors Corporation. (DBD - 15)

In June 1963 the subcommittee developed and approved the SAE Recommended Practice, "Roll-Over Tests Without Collision - SAE J857." (DBD - 16)

On October 6, 1966 the Secretary of Commerce announced the development of initial Federal motor vehicle safety standards pursuant to the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. (DBD - 34) The Static Crusher was then being developed at Fisher Body by James Augustitis, an associate senior research engineer. (DBD - 35) Fisher Body was responsible for building the vehicle bodies for General Motors.

In August of 1967 the Impact and Roll-Over Test Procedures Subcommittee developed and approved SAE Recommended Practice, "Inverted Vehicle Drop Test Procedures - SAE J996." (DBD - 36)

By mid August the subcommittee's work on test procedures was nearing completion. Members used the top drop test procedures as a means for obtaining values for drop height and encroachment distance. The procedure was designed to be a repeatable and reliable test methodology. It was concluded that initially vehicles should be dropped from 2 feet. (DBD - 37)

Only a week or so after the subcommittee's Inverted Drop Test - SAEJ996 was approved, and the recommended drop height of 2 feet was initially established, Fisher Body dropped two 1967 Chevrolet "B" 4 door hardtops from 6 inches which resulted in 8 inches of dynamic intrusion.(DBD - 38) Fisher Body tested the same 1967 Chevrolet "B" 4 door hardtop with the static crusher and the vehicle's roof withstood 6000 pounds withjust 3 inches of crush. (DBD - 39)

Immediately after General Motors' vehicles failed the two drop tests on September 6 and 7, Ed Klove of Fisher Body prepared a proposal of a Roof Crush Test Procedure. (DBD - 40) P.O. Johnson of Fisher Body (and also a subcommittee member) presented Klove's proposal to the SAE Impact and Roll-Over Test Procedures Subcommittee on September 29, 1967. Klove's proposal stated its advantages: "more impressive numbers are obtained - three inches crush for 6000 lb. load. (A six inch vehicle drop height allowing eight inches crush is not impressive)." (DBD - 41) Fisher Body now realized that all their vehicles would not even meet a drop height of 6 inches. (DBD - 42) Klove's proposal dared to pose the question, "Who can say that it does not provide as good a measure of vehicle safety as does an inverted drop test?" (DBD - 43) It was Klove's idea to suggest this test procedure as an alternative method of showing compliance.(DBD - 44) Fisher Body's nickname for the Static Crusher was "GOLDFINGER." (DBD - 45)

On December 8, 1971, NHTSA adopted General Motors' proposal (one that GM's vehicles could already pass) (DBD - 47) and announced that FMVSS 216 was being created as a temporary alternative to FMVSS 208 rollover testing. (DBD - 60)

The December 11, 1971 NHTSA News Release read: "The new standard is intended as an alternative to Standard No. 208 rollover test, and will become effective on August 15, 1973.

 

 

 

End of the line for Goertz at Nissan: Oct 1964 Tokyo Motor Show (CSP-311 Silva Coupe) Note earliest 240z sketches were ~ 1 year later.

 

 * apart from the CSP-311 Silva coupe that was more of an experiment. It was difficult to produce (only 554) and sold poorly like the DC-3. It was a good learning experience for Nissan as to how not to design a coupe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by 240260280

[240260280]

When looking at Datsun racing history, it seems that the Datsun convertible sports cars in the USA in the early 60's were the first track racers and winners after the war: http://www.nissan-motorsports.com/ENN/NISSAN/HISTORY/MOTORSPORTS/index.html

The USA convertible sports cars were also the first racing cars to be sponsored by Nissan.

 

 

Datsun seems to have done a bit of track racing in the 30's and 40's but stopped. 

 

 

 

 

Datsun NL-75 1936

 

 

Apart from Nissan's well known 1958 headfirst  jump into rallying that was spurred by Mr. K. ....

1958 Australia Mobil Gas Trial

Nissan did little in Japan until after a non-sponsored privateer, Genichiro Tahara, won solely on his own effort at the 1st Japan Grand Prix Race, Suzuka Circuit, spring 1963.  It seems this kick started Nissan into its racing activities in Japan.

Genichiro Tahara Winning at Suzuka 1963.

SP310_first_race_Japan_1963.mp4

 

 

In the USA things were different; Datsun's were track racing for the previous 3 years  (since 1960). Mr K was in the USA and things were moving much faster than in Japan (both cars and Nissan-sponsored racing involvement).

The fact that no convertible sports cars were sold in Japan for two years, the fact that Mr. K was the motive force at Nissan for racing, the fact he was now situated in the USA, and the fact he requisitioned a sports car for the USA market, affirms the 240z sport car was designed and built for the USA sports car market.

Jean Le Plant and Benny Ackermann raced an SPL-212 in 1960 & 1962 then switched to the SPL-310 in 1962

Norah Taylor raced an SPL212 in 1961

 

Modernized "Datsun 1200" SPL-212 Commemorating Nissan's first Sponsored Racer:  Jean Plant's 1960 LHD SPL-212 #129 Datsun 1200. It Raced from 1960 to 1963 in the USA.

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by 240260280

[240260280]

Datsun NL75  Photos (picture above disappeared):

 

 

 

[RIP260Z]

On 22/12/2016 at 1:59 AM, 240260280 said:

End of the line for Goertz at Nissan: Oct 1964 Tokyo Motor Show (CSP-311 Silva Coupe) Note earliest 240z sketches were ~ 1 year later.

 

 * apart from the CSP-311 Silva coupe that was more of an experiment. It was difficult to produce (only 554) and sold poorly like the DC-3. It was a good learning experience for Nissan as to how not to design a coupe.

 

It isn't brilliant to cherry pick info and imply a different take on what happened. There aren't any 240z sketches, there are design sketches that eventually became the S30. You forget the CSP311 was an earlier concept at the beginning of this design road, and that route became a dead end. So, could it be said that the CSP311 was an early prototype of the "240z"? Not for me.

Why is Goertz here?

The CSP311 was an experiment, I don't think so. Yes it taught them stuff , and considering what the car was and its target, it was a success. Not all cars are measured on the numbers they sell.

The US sales take, it needs filling out, as there are reasons why this is so.

[240260280]

Goertz worked a little on the first Nissan sports coupe that preceded the Z. He deserves some credit for this fact but the point made above is that he was gone by the end of '64.

Matsuo penned the first Z in late 1965 (below).  The details of this design evolved along the path to production but it is clear he had it nailed from the start.

All other Nissan production sports cars produced in the '60's were convertibles intended mostly  for the US market.

When the US safety regulations were changing, Nissan reacted, and the Z resulted from this (and other factors).  There were many in Nissan/Prince forcing the direction of the Z between '65 and '69 but Matsuo persevered and his design in '65 carried through for the most part.

 

[HS30-H]

11 minutes ago, RIP260Z said:

It isn't brilliant to cherry pick info and imply a different take on what happened. There aren't any 240z sketches, there are design sketches that eventually became the S30. You forget the CSP311 was an earlier concept at the beginning of this design road, and that route became a dead end. So, could it be said that the CSP311 was an early prototype of the "240z"? Not for me.

Why is Goertz here?

The CSP311 was an experiment, I don't think so. Yes it taught them stuff , and considering what the car was and its target, it was a success. Not all cars are measured on the numbers they sell.

The US sales take, it needs filling out, as there are reasons why this is so.

Well said!

The whole idea of downloading excerpts from the Mizma Gikoh one-man blog and presenting them here as 'History' is, in my view, seriously misguided. He has an agenda. Nothing wrong with that if the evidence stacks up to support it, but it simply doesn't. He's a Honda fan to boot.

The irony is that some of the cars mentioned in the beginning of a very long list actually WERE targeting the North American/USA market (stand up SPL212 and SPL213) and yet they are judged to be some kind of failure. Presumably this is because they were pretty much entirely based on the S211, which was not exported? And no mention at all of the A80X which preceded all of them? It's hard to take seriously anything which states that "Datsun produced" anything. 'Datsun' was not in the business of designing, making or producing anything, because it was simply an emblem affixed to a Nissan product.

In 2014 Hitoshi UEMURA - the Chief Engineer on the S30-series Z project - published his book 'Fairlady Z Development Record', in which he spends a lot of time mentioning that the ergonomics of the project included percentiles of Japanese females as well as American males, that the needs and requirements of other export markets than the USA were taken into account, and that requirements for the Japanese home market were just as important as any single export market. If you look at the cars themselves you can see the amount of care and attention that was given to both RHD and LHD layouts, and yet we still have to hear and read this "Made For The USA" stuff all the time. Look at the engine and drivetrain; They were not made primarily with LHD markets in mind. 

"Made/Designed For The USA" ought to be "Volume Sales Targeted For USA/North America". Same as most sports cars of the 1950s, 60s and 70s...

[240260280]

You guys are just on the wrong side of the pond to understand.