Interesting Historical Information Indicating Z was for US Market

[HS30-H]

Just now, 240260280 said:

You guys are just on the wrong side of the pond to understand.

I think it's the wide expanse of the Pacific Ocean - separating Japan and North America - that counts here. 

 

[HS30-H]

38 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

Goertz worked a little on the first Nissan sports coupe that preceded the Z. He deserves some credit for this fact but the point made above is that he was gone by the end of '64.

 

So Goertz gets a name check, but nobody else who worked on the project - which was pretty much complete before Goertz even turned up - does?

Historillogical.

[240260280]

You guys just don't have the perspective that comes from growing up in the car culture over here. It helps understand why Nissan went after this market.

Even if you just consider all of the trucks Nissan made for the USA presence in Japan after the war, then later their realization that all of these soldiers moved back to the USA with an understanding of Nissan trucks.

Yokohama was a truck factory for the USA army before it was a Z factory for many of the same families. (See the photo below commemorating 100,000 trucks produced and on some of these on display at Oppama).

 

Goertz was mentioned appropriately and with measure.

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by 240260280

[HS30-H]

12 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

You guys just don't have the perspective that comes from growing up in the car culture over here. It helps understand why Nissan went after this market.

 

What does this even mean? I grew up with American car culture in the family, along with ALL car culture. Nobody needs to grow up in the USA to be able to get a handle on it.

It's the same market that all the other manufacturers were aiming at in the post-war period and beyond. Volume sales. To make money. Traditionally it has meant tweaking your product to suit. In Nissan's case with the S30-series Z, it meant a certain amount of de-contenting, softening it up and arguably dumbing it down - not to mention de-tuning it to suit local requirements. Part of the selling process was "we made it just for you!". It worked, didn't it?

But how does this translate to 'Made ONLY for the USA'? The fact that Nissan made such an effort to engineer the S30-series Z for both domestic and export markets, and for RHD as well as LHD, should tell us all we need to know. The evidence is on every car.  

How come you never, ever seem to consider the size of Nissan's single most important market (Japan), Nissan's ambitions for itself against its domestic rivals, or indeed the hopes, dreams and ambitions of the Japanese car-buying public during the period concerned? Does none of that count as far as you are concerned? Do you think they were in the business of making stuff only for the USA?

Sorry but all that stuff about the trucks - whilst it is interesting in and of itself - is pretty much irrelevant here.

  

[240260280]

Nah, you have to have grown up here to appreciate the car culture over here.  Just like I watch Coronation Street and have been to Manchester a few times but haven't lived it.

[HS30-H]

37 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

Nah, you have to have grown up here to appreciate the car culture over here.  Just like I watch Coronation Street and have been to Manchester a few times but haven't lived it.

But what relevance has "the car culture over here" got to the story of a Japanese car, conceived, planned, styled, engineered and built in Japan by Japanese people? Are you saying that 'American car culture' somehow trumps or overshadows all of that? How?

Let me turn that back on you and ask you if you have experienced Japan and Japanese car culture? How about working in the Japanese company culture, in Japan? Ever been involved in Japanese manufacturing? I have. 30+ years worth of experience one way and another. I think it would be rather gauche of me to say "you don't understand", but you're happy to say it to me regarding the USA, even when we are talking about a Japanese product. Remind me, where is it you live again? 

 

Oh and Coronation Street and Manchester? You have my condolences... 

[240260280]

The point I am making is that Nissan, its executives, and its future executives witnessed the American automotive need during the occupation and when times changed they went for this market.  Boots on the ground in the USA such as Katayama re-affirmed this. When sports cars gained traction in the USA, they went for it.

 

I guess they could have gone after the UK market with their pre-war Austin experiences but they chose not to. They even had a hell of a time getting Z's into the UK for a car show nearly a year after they were released in North America.  USA was a path of least resistance and opportunity.

Edited February 21, 2018 by 240260280
Heavy Throbber content redacted.

[psdenno]

Has this topic turned into a "Mine is bigger than yours." contest?  I'm bored.

Dennis

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, 240260280 said:

The point I am making is that Nissan, its executives, and its future executives witnessed the American automotive need during the occupation and when times changed they went for this market.  Boots on the ground in the USA such as Katayama re-affirmed this. When sports cars gained traction in the USA, they went for it.

Like it was news that the USA market had a huge potential for sales in the 60s and 70s? Every manufacturer worth its salt was aiming at the USA in some way during the post-war period. 'Export or Die' was the rallying call over here in the United Kingdom. It's telling that you cite Katayama as being in some way on-point, like he was Christopher Columbus or something. Late to the show, I'd say.

Austin even put together a car especially aimed at the potential of the USA market, and called it the Atlantic. You could say "Made For The USA" about it. Didn't sell. The fact that it had been conceived and designed with the USA in mind simply wasn't enough. Quite frankly, it wasn't very good at being anything in particular. Key point.

Nissan made a good car in the S30-series Z. Good stylistically, good dynamically. International exchange rates of the time as well as favourable shipping routes and open markets allowed it to fulfill its potential and sell well in North America, but at what point does aiming something at a particular market become making it for that market? All the other major manufacturers of sports cars were targeting the lucrative USA market too. Were their cars "made for" the USA, as in conceived, designed and engineered specifically for the USA, and nowhere else? How about all those other Nissans that paved the way - and even outsold - the Z? The tens of thousands of little pickup trucks, the Sunnies, the Bluebirds? Do the sales numbers mean that they too were "designed for the USA"? I don't think so.

As I've said before, you only have to look at the details of the cars themselves to see the design concessions, the pragmatism and good engineering that went into them. It tells us that targeting a particular market for volume sales does not make a car like the S30-series Z solely about that market. The title given to this thread was "Interesting Historical Information Indicating Z was for US Market", so where is that information? What does the title even mean...?  

 

   

[240260280]

The sticking point is that all other sports car manufactures made cars for their domestic market and continued to do so, Nissan did not, they tried, it failed so they went for the USA market.  The Z is a significant element in the evolution of this approach that started in 1960 with the SPL212.

[HS30-H]

26 minutes ago, psdenno said:

Has this topic turned into a "Mine is bigger than yours." contest?  I'm bored.

Dennis, I'll ask your advice then. How would you answer somebody who says "You guys just don't have the perspective that comes from growing up in the car culture over here."...like there's something I'm missing?

It's like he's telling me that I don't know what beef tastes like or something. I mean really, WTF? It's laughable. 

[HS30-H]

3 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

The sticking point is that all other sports car manufactures made cars for their domestic market and continued to do so, Nissan did not, they tried, it failed so they went for the USA market.  The Z is a significant element in the evolution of this approach that started in 1960 with the SPL212.

Ha ha ha! There it is. I think I'll frame it.

"It failed". Utter, utter nonsense. You're on another planet.