Heater Core Alternative - Escort Core into 260/280

[SoCalJim]

My ‘75 with factory air has this setup, and lacks the heater control valve shown. Above.  At least I don’t recall seeing one when I removed the dash, A/C, heater, and blower.

 

[Captain Obvious]

4 hours ago, mikev88 said:

Captain, Just wanted to confirm with you if you actually assembled this method and if the clearance was alright once the whole airbox, fan e.t.c was mounted.

Mike, Full disclosure,  I did not actually install that version in a car, but I did place the blower assembly and connecting duct into place to verify that there was no interference. So, while I cannot guarantee with absolute certainty that I did not overlook something, I have a very high degree of confidence that it fits fine.

Here's some pics of that version with the blower and duct in place. Top view:

View from the firewall looking backwards:

View from the interior looking towards the engine:

[Captain Obvious]

4 hours ago, mikev88 said:

Also, general question for everyone,  my car is a factory AC which is non fonctional right now.  Factory AC cars have a valve (the one with the feedthrough unit attached),  which I think is a simple vaccum stop valve to make sure no coolant goes into the core when the AC is on. My question is, on non factory AC car, is this valve also present?

On the cars without factory air, that vacuum valve is not present. In fact none of the vacuum valves are present at all. The non-A/C cars (like my 77) have all manual cable controls and do not use vacuum at all.

And although you didn't ask, that rarely ever stops me... Yes, the reason they put that vacuum shut off valve in place is to shut off all the water flow to the core whenever the A/C is on, but it's a little more complicated than that... The temperature control slider lever not only controls the temp for the heater, but it also controls the temp for the A/C by cycling the compressor. So if you want to be able to use that same control lever for both functions, you have to cut off the water when the A/C is on.

Unfortunately the desired temperature ranges for the two functions are so wildly different that they couldn't use the same simple slider to do both controls without completely disabling the function that wasn't being used.

Did I say that right? Does that even make sense?  

[mikev88]

22 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Mike, Full disclosure,  I did not actually install that version in a car, but I did place the blower assembly and connecting duct into place to verify that there was no interference. So, while I cannot guarantee with absolute certainty that I did not overlook something, I have a very high degree of confidence that it fits fine.

Here's some pics of that version with the blower and duct in place. Top view:

View from the firewall looking backwards:

Thanks for those pics, my airbox is in the car so test fittings isn't exactly a nice job. It seems like there is plenty of space for what I want to do.

10 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

On the cars without factory air, that vacuum valve is not present. In fact none of the vacuum valves are present at all. The non-A/C cars (like my 77) have all manual cable controls and do not use vacuum at all.

And although you didn't ask, that rarely ever stops me... Yes, the reason they put that vacuum shut off valve in place is to shut off all the water flow to the core whenever the A/C is on, but it's a little more complicated than that... The temperature control slider lever not only controls the temp for the heater, but it also controls the temp for the A/C by cycling the compressor. So if you want to be able to use that same control lever for both functions, you have to cut off the water when the A/C is on.

Unfortunately the desired temperature ranges for the two functions are so wildly different that they couldn't use the same simple slider to do both controls without completely disabling the function that wasn't being used.

Did I say that right? Does that even make sense?  

Makes perfect sense. I'm gonna attempt to fit everything inside with a 4 seasons valve that I purchased. It would be a solution for those who want to retain AC. If it's too tight i'll relocate everything to the engine bay.

[Captain Obvious]

And here's a pic that may help both you and Jim. I never finalized the hose connections,, but I did test fit the Escort core with the original temp valve and vacuum shut-off.

The one connection (right side in this pic) should be easy. The other end is more of a problem though. But this pic should help you on your way:

[SoCalJim]

The last few pictures really help me see the differences in heater core connection locations and space constraints with the heater and blower assemblies.  I’ve got a bit of head scratching to do.  Thanks, CO!

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, I'm positive it's possible to do the Escort core without moving the water control valve out into the engine compartment, but it's tight. Just like the original system was tight. Little rats nest of short hoses and a whole bunch of leak sources. That's why I moved my water control out to the engine compartment in the first place. However I do believe the new plastic ball valve water control valves are way more reliable and leak resistant than the original brass things. I would be much more comfortable with a new style plastic valve in the interior than the old styles.

You guys know... If you don't use the heat a lot and don't mess with the temperature other than twice a year, you could mount a small valve in the engine compartment without a remote cable connected to it. Open it up in the fall, and close it off in the spring? 

You'd have to open the hood and adjust the valve, but if you only ever use "full heat" or "full off" for your two seasons, then you could do that. Then you modulate the rest of the temperature with the air speed for the few days between "seasons".

[siteunseen]

3 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Yeah, I'm positive it's possible to do the Escort core without moving the water control valve out into the engine compartment, but it's tight. Just like the original system was tight. Little rats nest of short hoses and a whole bunch of leak sources. That's why I moved my water control out to the engine compartment in the first place. However I do believe the new plastic ball valve water control valves are way more reliable and leak resistant than the original brass things. I would be much more comfortable with a new style plastic valve in the interior than the old styles.

You guys know... If you don't use the heat a lot and don't mess with the temperature other than twice a year, you could mount a small valve in the engine compartment without a remote cable connected to it. Open it up in the fall, and close it off in the spring? 

You'd have to open the hood and adjust the valve, but if you only ever use "full heat" or "full off" for your two seasons, then you could do that. Then you modulate the rest of the temperature with the air speed for the few days between "seasons".

I still haven't done that but think it's a good idea. If you have one could you post a photo for us to go by? seems like you've already done it for me or maybe it was just the picture of the on/off valve.

Thanks Captain.

[Captain Obvious]

Site, I've got two valves up in the engine compartment. One of them is cable controlled by the temp slider on the dash, and the other is a small PEX brass ball valve from the big home improvement store. I closed it about halfway and then took the handle off. I put that one in because the core got hotter than I really needed and I found that I only used the bottom 1/4 of the temp slider adjustment.

With that additional (fixed) restriction in series with the temp control valve, I now use about 3/4 of the adjustment range.

Which valve are you looking for pics?

BTW - The temp slider valve was documented in a thread, but of course, the pics are gone because Photobucket extorted them out of existence:
https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/44009-heater-water-****-valve-relocation-project/

[240260280]

My old toyota tercel wagon (breaking bad) had the water valve in the engine compartment. I learned to lubricate it if I wanted heat.

 

 

 

[siteunseen]

10 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Site, I've got two valves up in the engine compartment. One of them is cable controlled by the temp slider on the dash, and the other is a small PEX brass ball valve from the big home improvement store. I closed it about halfway and then took the handle off. I put that one in because the core got hotter than I really needed and I found that I only used the bottom 1/4 of the temp slider adjustment.

With that additional (fixed) restriction in series with the temp control valve, I now use about 3/4 of the adjustment range.

Which valve are you looking for pics?

BTW - The temp slider valve was documented in a thread, but of course, the pics are gone because Photobucket extorted them out of existence:
https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/44009-heater-water-****-valve-relocation-project/

Here's what I need your expertise on.  I found the thread but need more specific answer like yes or no on  my idea that putting a valve off the head is the same as closing the OEwater coc...

 

 

[Captain Obvious]

Yes. Plugging the elbow nipple on the back corner of the head is the same thing as closing the water temperature control cocck.

And if you are putting in a manually (hand) controlled ball valve, it doesn't matter which side of the core it goes on.