HLS30-00006 at the Crusher?

[HS30-H]

51 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

Nissan sent jets filled with US dealers to Japan out of appreciation.  Flying journalists on a 1 hour flight to NYC is nothing. There are 5 documented  240z's flown to the USA around the time of the show in Oct 1969. HLS30-00004 to 8 inclusive.  Another one or two came over by jet in Dec. 

Why not add to these discussions rather than nit picking?

I am adding to the discussion. I'd say that - at the very least - I might be offering an alternative take on all this, and a bit of grit to go with all of that "International Preview" type corn you seem so happy to swallow. 

One thing I'd point out is that you do seem a little bit too eager to assign some of these cars concrete chassis numbers. Much of it seems to be based on a little less evidence than would be ideal. I think it's a bit risky when some cars are known to have been repainted between shows. It reminds me of what Shelby was doing with Cobras a few years earlier. That situation was because he didn't have enough cars on-hand, and needed to make it look like there were more. NMC USA were in a similar situation in late 1969, as far as I can see.

About those journalists: You seem to share Carl Beck's feeling that jetting in a bunch of journos from Detroit was "nothing". It seems to have produced little more copy than mailing them out the press pack and a bottle of half-decent single malt would have. Still, I'm sure they enjoyed the canapes. Maybe they took in a Broadway show whilst they were in town? I guess it wouldn't have been 'My Fair Lady' though...  

[HS30-H]

15 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

No matter how much some wish there was no car....there was a Z at the Pierre Hotel according to the NY Times (thanks to @Carl Beck?

 

N.Y.Times 23, Oct. 69 - Datsun Enters the Middle-Priced Sports Car Market

"Nissan Motor Company Ltd., which has built it reputation on economy cars, is making a determined bid for the middle-priced sports car market. The company showed its Datsun 240Z sports car at it international preview yesterday at the Pierre Hotel. The car is expected to be competitive with Detroit-built sports-type of cars and European sports cars.".....

Who's saying there was no car at the Pierre Hotel?

What I'm pointing out - I thought you'd have got it by now - is that there's not much photographic evidence of the event. My point being that it seems to have been a slightly (ahem...) less illustrious affair than it gets credit for, and to my mind that seems to point to it being a reactive event. 

I playfully cast some bait towards you a couple of posts ago. I have a Nissan photo of the 'unveiling' of the car at the Pierre Hotel. @26th-Z and @Mike B have seen it too. You didn't take the bait. I'm dragging it out a little because I want to add weight to my point: There's a dearth of photos for what is claimed to have been a seminal event, and there's even conflicting opinion/evidence as to what colour the car was. Extraordinary.

[26th-Z]

I'm so sorry that I don't have my files with me at work today.  MikeB, Alan, and I have discussed the living daylights out of this topic.  One thing I DO want to mention is that Carl's accounting is not accurate.  As I recollect without the advantage of my notes is that; the cars shown in New York and California are not the same, Carl has the Beverly hotel name wrong, the reporters did not all come from Detroit...need I go on?  Alan, Mike, don't you still have all of our correspondence?

Blue, you can easily find pictures in the press release as well as the Nissan corporate quarterly report.

[26th-Z]

Alan, Mike, once I get home tonight, do either of you have any objections to my sharing our conversations?  Including the press bibliography?

[JSM]

Man, I’d love to hear you guys argue with your wives. @HS30-H you got to post some YouTube videos going at it with your wife. ?

I just hang my head and say yes dear, whatever. 

[240260280]

4 hours ago, 26th-Z said:

Blue, you can easily find pictures in the press release as well as the Nissan corporate quarterly report.

Thanks!  The only photos I have seen at that time are ones of the non-badge HLS30-00004 or 5 in the dirt (lower photo below). It also appeared in many papers in Oct/Nov 1969.

I also have a Nissan re-issue of the Oct 22, 1969 press release  with a glossy photo.  It looks like this one but in B&W:

 

[240260280]

4 hours ago, HS30-H said:

I playfully cast some bait towards you a couple of posts ago. I have a Nissan photo of the 'unveiling' of the car at the Pierre Hotel. @26th-Z and @Mike B have seen it too. You didn't take the bait. I'm dragging it out a little because I want to add weight to my point: There's a dearth of photos for what is claimed to have been a seminal event, and there's even conflicting opinion/evidence as to what colour the car was. Extraordinary.

Whilst you seem to take great delight in the lack of public domain photos from the Oct 1969 event at the Pierre Hotel, surely you must take even greater delight in the problems Nissan had pulling off their first show in the UK....  a year later! England would not even let the cars in the country.... a LHD 240z landed in Europe had to be sent in ......late for the show too!!!! 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by 240260280

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, 240260280 said:

Whilst you seem to take great delight in the lack of public domain photos from the Oct 1969 event at the Pierre Hotel, surely you must take even greater delight in the problems Nissan had pulling off their first show in the UK....  a year later! England would not even let the cars in the country.... a LHD 240z landed in Europe had to be sent in ......late for the show too!!!! 

 

That's a classic bit of 'Whataboutery'. But your Hoover has sucked up somebody else's error and swallowed it without due diligence.

Datsun UK (a privately owned concessionaire at the time) showed two HS30-prefixed RHD cars at the 1970 Earls Court Motor Show. The above photo doesn't show one of them, and isn't even a photo from the Earls Court show. I believe it was misused and mis-captioned in your source publication. You might want to check the filter the next time you empty the bag.

But it was a pretty poor show wasn't it? Only two cars, and a year late. Hey, maybe Datsun UK "didn't want to disprespect" the UK auto industry? If only they'd thought to hire a ballroom in another town and fly bus in a plane coach load of journos for a private peep? "No Photo!"...

 

You're not really getting my point about Katayama's NY and LA 'trunk shows'. They've been hyped up into something they were not because people are happy to accept the stories they are fed, and without question. I've already said here that I believe they were a reaction to the timings of the Tokyo Press Preview and Tokyo Motor Show rather than somehow being The Main Event. With the lack of photos of the Pierre Hotel unveiling (I only know of one shot) I think we could surmise it possible that the press were asked not to take their own photos, and to use the photos in the press packs instead. If so, why? Would it be because the car was missing some emblems and/or other parts and would not fully represent what was going to be sold? Could it be because the backdrop at the unveiling was not ideal? Speculation, but perhaps food for thought. Any "delight" is at the thought of getting to the bottom of a few tall stories.

I remind you that we even have different people - one of them closely involved - telling us different stories about the colour of the particular car. The reminiscence of it being "Gold" is something I noted being thrown up in the hoo-ha regarding the 'rediscovery' of "Lucky #13" a few years back, where it seemed some of the commentators appeared to be hoping it was the Pierre Hotel car.     

[psdenno]

4 hours ago, 240260280 said:

I also have a Nissan re-issue of the Oct 22, 1969 press release  with a glossy photo.  It looks like this one but in B&W:

 

 

Nissan got a lot of use from the picture of the red Z.  I think this non-factory banner is based on a dealership brochure/hand out.  To those with a better Hoover, please correct me if I'm in error.

Dennis

[26th-Z]

On 4/19/2019 at 7:48 AM, 240260280 said:

After the International Preview in NY - the 240Z was flown to L.A. - where it made it's West Coast Debut the 24th of Oct. 1969 at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel in Hollywood. {the Hotel used in the movie Pretty Woman and many others}

He also mentioned in another thread that the organizer recalled the car to be gold.

 

For the record, the LA show was the 23rd and it was at the Beverly Hilton.  It was not the same color as the car at the Pierre and it could very well have been 920 Safari Gold.  Now you know, Blue.  Please stop quoting Carl's accounting.  It is wrong.

[240260280]

Thanks Chris. Do you know the colour of the Pierre Hotel Car or have any photos?  Your Boston show car is great! 

btw There were a few pictures of a silver badged, white walled 240z in Beverly Hills in 1969 and Mike has a picture of the Oct 31, 1969 LA show car that looks silver or white... very close in time and location so it seems to be HLS30-00008. I spoke to Johnnie Gable and she confirmed these photos were from Beverly Hills area.

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by 240260280

[26th-Z]

I have pictures but  I don't own them and I don't have permission to post them.  Of course, the pictures are B&W so the color is up to interpretation.  The Pierre car is dark and the Beverly Hilton car is light.  See if you can find a copy of "Nissan News" from the fall of 1969.  It has pictures of the Beverly Hilton car, page 8.  Personally, I think the Pierre car is racing green with a tan interior but I'm biased in that direction.  Here's a picture of the ballroom at the Pierre to give you an idea of the scale of that event.  Evidently, it wasn't just the introduction of the Z.  It was a display of the entire Datsun line-up for 1970, and, oh-by-the-way, "we're adding this personal sports car to our product line which will boost sales of all the fine Datsun products and generate increased showroom traffic".

Edited April 20, 2019 by 26th-Z