Deja Vu: 1971 Restoration

[motorman7]

And...off she goes, back to the owner.  Will post overall summary and lessons learned once I  get a little time. 

[Diseazd]

Can't believe you did all that work for someone else......wish I had friends like you....no matter what you charged (and I'm sure it wasn't enough)! When do you start your white car?

[motorman7]

19 minutes ago, Diseazd said:

Can't believe you did all that work for someone else......wish I had friends like you....no matter what you charged (and I'm sure it wasn't enough)! When do you start your white car?

Hi Guy,

     The whole project was actually pretty enjoyable (for the most part) and educational.   I think the most important thing I learned is that if you have a decent car to start with, then pay the extra money for a great paint job.   

         That being said, I've actually started stripping and boxing the white car parts.   I will sand it pretty bare, then send it off to Miguel to do the paint work, same as the orange car.

For the orange car here, I will do a summary here at the end and quote costs, labor, lessons learned etc.  I will probably continue the white car blog but not in as much detail.  

Good to hear from you again.

Best regards,

    Rich

[motorman7]

Epilogue:

So, this is actually my first ‘contracted’ 240Z restoration (Yes, we had a signed contract).  Overall, I would say that it went surprisingly well.  The restoration was done within the contract estimated cost of $40K and time frame of one year (almost).

                The breakdown on the costs for the customer are as follows:

Paint: $12,000

Parts and Material: $14,885.28

Labor: $12,476.25

For a grand total restoration cost of: $39,361.53

 

Payments for the paint were made by the customer directly to the paint shop

Payments for parts and labor costs were made by the customer through Paypal.  Payments were all made in advance in $1500 increments.  When the $1500 was spent, I would send an invoice and then the next payment was sent. 

This process worked very well and the customer was very prompt with payments and very supportive.  The customer was able to monitor the progress through the blog and was very communicative and supportive during the restoration.  This was done by e-mail and not through the blog. It was actually a very nice way to do things.

 

For the most part, the restoration went as planned.  Below are some of the items that were lessons learned or different than originally planned or expected.

1.       Initially, the plan was to restore the car to what Hagerty’s would consider a Condition #2 car, similar to my orange Z, which I consider a condition #2.  However, after the paint job, the project was kicked up a level to where the car would be in the Condition #1 category.  As I mentioned earlier, paint and body work quality is a huge factor in a restoration. https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1972-Datsun-240Z 

2.       Quality paint  and body work is expensive.  I was hoping to get the paint done for $5-10K.  This is what I discussed with the customer.  I got a number of quotes and even considered Maaco (they did a nice job on my yellow Z, not on my silver Z).  However, I had seen Miguel’s work and really wanted a great paint job so I went in that direction.  The total cost of the paint job was $14,000.  The customer paid $12K of this and I paid out of my labor cost $2K.  The reason I covered $2K of the paint job was that I had told the customer $5-10K for paint, and obviously we blew way past that.  The other reason is that I charged labor for my early prep and body work, all of which was removed by Miguel.  So, no fair to charge the customer twice, so the right thing to do was to pick up some of the cost.  On the next car I do, after I remove all the parts, car will go straight to Miguel for paint.  No need for me to do any body work, although stripping most of the paint would not be bad.

3.       One more item on paint:  I would consider my Orange Z a condition #2 car, primarily because of the paint.  This orange Z that I just finished is about 90% in the Condition #1 state.  As you can see from the valuation  tools page, the price difference between the 2 conditions is more than the total cost of the paint.  Aside from the paint, I would say the cars are almost exactly the same.  If I had to do it over, I would have taken my orange car to Miguel.  I think the ROI is worth it for the paint.

4.       Scope creep: Every engineer has experienced this.  There were a couple of things that we added that were not part of my initial restoration plan.  Originally the car had the slotted mags.  The customer and I discussed the pros and cons of putting on the steelies and hubcaps and eventually we went in that direction.  That was a bit of a cost hit over the original estimate.  Polishing the mags would be about $300.  Getting a set of nice steelies and hubcaps was over $1K when all said and done.  Also, we ended up going with a nice reproduction of the original OEM exhaust instead of just replacing it with an off the shelf system.  The OEM reproduction came out great and looks and sounds super..   Nice choice on both items.  I will do this same system on my white one as well.  (Special thanks to Carl Beck for bringing this to our attention).

5.       Organizing everything in large storage boxes by section works out great.  I had an engine box, an interior box, and an undercarriage box.  This makes finding parts much easier.

6.       I do a lot of my own zinc plating, but when doing large projects, taking stuff to the plating shop is the way to go. There were several times I brought a lot of parts to the plating shop and just paid the minimum $75 lot charge.  This is a nice way to go as it is quick and they do a nice job.  Powder coating is also relatively cheap.

7.       Time wise, paint took a lot longer than I was expecting.  I was thinking 1-2 months.  I think it took 5 months.  Fortunately I was able to do the engine and some undercarriage items during this period.

8.       Parts are starting to get hard to find.  It has been very helpful to have the support of the classiczcars.com site in hunting some of these things down. Thanks everyone!

9.       Not sure if I could do another one in a one year time frame.  Need to take into account, Vacations, Birthdays, weddings, car shows, home maintenance etc.

 

 

These are some of the items that stand out the most on the restoration.  I will add more as things come to mind if they are significant.

Edited March 3, 2018 by motorman7

[Diseazd]

Rich.....Wow....facts of life....restoring a Datsun 240Z correctly is very, very expensive. The customer got a bargain, and I’m sure your labor costs charged were nowhere close to what time (and knowledge) went into the Resto. What the public doesn’t understand is that when a Z goes across the auction block, they sell (with a few exceptions) for less than has been invested. Two things stick out......start with a rust free, straight car (pay up for the right car), and pay up for the paint and body work. Your attention to detail is incredible! The engineer in you is apparent (Fluid Mech and Thermodynamics made me switch majors at Georgia Tech). These cars are so intoxicating......( everyone on this forum knows that). You certainly know that too.....You didn’t do this restoration for money, you did it because you are crazy about these cars......I am too!  Congrats to you and the customer who got a real bargain.

Guy

[Namerow]

Thoughtful (as in, well thought out) summary.  Thanks for taking the time.  I keep reading innuendos on Bring-a-Trailer to the effect that certain collectors are paying $50K and up for early 'Condition 1' Z's, but it seems like these are restricted to low-mile, 'mint-in-box', original-paint cars.  Your results suggest that the best that most (sane) hobbyists can achieve is apparently going to be 'Condition 2', and the resulting vehicles don't seem to be bringing much more than $30K, making it a barely break-even proposition. 

Not that starting with a similar-vintage Alfa GTV would probably be much different -- other than adding 50% to all the numbers!

[S30Driver]

Thanks Rich for taking the time to do the project breakdown.  One question about the paint & body work,  how was Miguel paid for his service?  Was it in increments over the 5 months?  What paint did he use?

I too congratulate you and the customer on this great project resulting in a very beautiful car!

[Zup]

Rich,

Emotion---not logic.

Love---not money.

You've set a new standard, beyond the honorable Mr.Wick Humble. Your documentation of this restoration is Z reference material for all time.

Do the book.

We will buy it.

 

[motorman7]

4 hours ago, S30Driver said:

 One question about the paint & body work,  how was Miguel paid for his service?  Was it in increments over the 5 months?  What paint did he use?

Hi Jim,

     Paint was paid for in the same manner that I was.  Payment was in advance through Paypal.  Again,the customer was great with all this.  Miguel would let me know when payment was needed and I would let the customer know.  

   I will double check, but pretty sure the paint was all PPG brand.

 

10.  Just for clarification on the paint and body work:  The thing that really shows the quality is the work that was done on the panel alignment and the creases and lines along the body and hood.  Too often the lines that form the hood bump and the side line (not sure the correct name for those) are smoothed over, rounded or uneven.  They typically lose their sharpness when taken to the average body shop.  Miguel was very careful with the lines which is what makes the panels look great.  They are sharp, even and straight, very nice!

 

[Patcon]

7 hours ago, motorman7 said:

They typically lose their sharpness when taken to the average body shop.  Miguel was very careful with the lines which is what makes the panels look great.  They are sharp, even and straight, very nice!

Lot's of block work!

[Carl Beck]

9 hours ago, motorman7 said:

Hi Jim,

.......snipped..cjb....

  10.  Just for clarification on the paint and body work:  The thing that really shows the quality is the work that was done on the panel alignment and the creases and lines along the body and hood.  Too often the lines that form the hood bump and the side line (not sure the correct name for those) are smoothed over, rounded or uneven.  They typically lose their sharpness when taken to the average body shop.  Miguel was very careful with the lines which is what makes the panels look great.  They are sharp, even and straight, very nice!

 

From memory -that sharp side body line front to rear - was present on the Datsun 411, carried over to the 510 and then the Z.  The term "supersonic line" was used to describe it.  Can't remember if that term originated with Pininfarina on the Datsun 410 Bluebird or if that is simply what it was called inside Nissan Styling/Design studio.

[madkaw]

I will definitely reference this thread while doing the 70. I hope to have the same arrangement of doing the car on someone else’s dime . I’ve done this before but not to this extent . The bar was set very high here. 

As far as paint - base coat with lots of clear coat looks amazing ,  but lots of layers can cause big chips. Color sanding or blocking out the clear - which was probably done here makes a huge difference . Many man hours of good ole elbow grease . All that clear really brightens the paint .