general troubleshooting question

[CB30]

I've been looking for a Z for about five years now. I was half an hour too late to meet a guy who was dumping a beautiful 79 (wife was pregnant, it was hot and she passed out) for $1500. It was obvious he had no clue what he was selling. But I was late and somebody else wasn't.

I live in Idaho so anything over ten years old that isn't a pickup is mostly held together with bailing wire, but I may have found another Z. Near as I can tell, it's a 77 (just guessing based on body lines, bumper trim, hubcaps, and steering wheel. It's got some rust along the bottom, the top's been caved some (snow) and the paint used to shine. I asked why it was sitting and a friend of the owner gave me this story:

Apparently, it ran beautifully but wouldn't start when hot. They assumed it was something to do with a sensor, but never attempted to remedy the situation. The owner just parked it and bought a new, you guessed it, pickup truck. The car's been sitting a few years now.

So, finally getting to the question, I'm not the richest man in the world (now divorced, paying child support for two children, and supporting my half looney brother) and this car is in my price range. Any ideas on what could've been wrong, how easily it could be fixed and for how much, and should I jump or run the other way? Oops... That was four questions, wasn't it? Oh crap! I just asked a fifth. Sorry about that.

[2ManyZs]

All those questions... one simple answer...

If the car has been sitting for a long period of time, and has damage due to snow(?). I would have a serious look at the underside of the car before you decide to do anything even remotely like worrying how to fix it.

The mechanicals are fairly easy to fix, and with all the heads we have hear to put our collective minds together we can figure out most anything.... except how to fix a chassis that has a serious rust problem. If the rust is severe, which it sounds like it could be given the damage to the roof, which says the car has been outside in the weather and neglected, then it may not be worth the time or energy to even consider getting it running again.

If you do a search here on the site for rust issues, you will get a clear idea on what to look for, then take an afternoon to look over the car carefully... then decide if it is something that is worth fixing.

[CB30]

I don't think the rust is a major problem with this car, the only visible rust is directly behind the tires, about a foot long patch on each fender (the passenger front being the worst), but I intend to install a body kit on any car I buy to help defend against the ravages fo the road (mudflaps would be a sin). And the roof caved just last winter (according to my employer whos house it's currently located) so there's no rust damage in that area, though I've heard that the roof is the hardest thing to get right (I assume that's because it's a large "flat" area without body lines interupting different planes, therefore not obscuring imperfections).

I forgot to mention that the hood bears evidence of a very small fire along the raised portion's driver side egedge about two thirds the way toward the front.

... I don't want to make it sound as if the car's a lost cause. Other than the roof, oxidized paint, and the rust behind the wheels, the body is in superb condition. I'm mostly curious about the apparent problem of starting when the engine is at operating temperature. I'm the farthest thing from a super mechanic, but I'm no idiot either (who the hell thought it would be a good idea to design the Subaru so that you had to remove everything but the transmission to change the clutch anyway?). I've just never heard of a similar situation in any other vehicles.

[Ed]

Like 2many said, Make sure the car is worth fixin before you buy it. Check her out especially the floor pans. If you have some rust already I guarantee you will find more. Z's are fairly easy to work on and most parts are still available. But do remember that All Z's are 20-30 years old. They will require a steady budget to keep her running. I'm not trying to discourage you just make sure you know what your getting.

[tanny]

My experience: Bought a 1973 240 (had been stored inside for last 20 years and had 100,000 miles on it after 9 years of use)18 months ago without a clue about Zs other than I liked them since driving my girlfriend's Z in 1972. Due to blind luck, it had very little rust, but all hydraulics had to be replaced, rebuilt the engine, new tires, and hundreds of odds and ends repaired. Lucky for me this sight exists. Lots of knowledge here. Have invested $2500 already doing all my own repairs and still need a paint job, new strut cartridges and springs, reupholster seats, and new carpet. Granted, the car will be close to new, but this may give some idea of the expense of refurbishing the Z, especially one that has sat for too long. Not knowledgeable enough to give you much mechanical advice on the 77. Good luck. Victor.

[beandip]

:sick: Rust is the big thing with these cars as was mentioned before, these cars are unibody construction and built out of sheetmetal ! No frame , like you most likely are used to. So when rust is active it will destroy a Z like peranas eating a rabbet . Like the man said check the surch and see what has been said and said and said of this problem. You can sink a thousand dollars in rust repair so fast you cant imagine. the more you describe the car the worse it sounds! sorry.

[CB30]

Anyone have any idea as to why the car wont start after it reaches operating temperature? As I said before, starts fine/runs fine/wont start when it's run long enough to get warm. I'm no expert, so anything I think is just speculation. Hot intake manifold causing problems (this is what I think is least likely)? I'm leaning more toward the injectors or a bad sensor. Help please.

I love the car, but really need to know what I'm getting into.

Rust is not the problem (I'm planning on becoming an autobody expert this summer ). It's faded, is going to get work anyway, and the floor pans look fine to me. Our roads here get heavily graveled in the winter and all the rust I can find on the car appears to have been caused by driving on these roads.

Also, are there any on-line stores that carry a wide array of Z parts? Everything i've looked at so far has been less than inclusive of the older Z's.

[2ManyZs]

First thing I would check is to see if it has spark when it is warm and won't start. If not, the first thing I would check would be the coil.

It could be a sensor, if it is, it's probably the temp sensor in the thermostat housing. Check to see if the wires are connected and Ok as they have a habit of coming loose as they only have a bullet style connector if I remember right.

When it won't start, you'll need to find out if it has spark or is not getting gas as that may point in the general direction of the problem.

[CB30]

Thanks for the tip, 2. Gives me somewhere to start. In the beginning...

I'm getting more fired up about this every day. But I have a new problem. As I mentioned, many of the roads around here are gravelled year round (gravelled heavily in winter and too small of a highway deparment to get it all cleaned up before winter hits and they're putting more down. So I will be getting a body kit of some sort to keep the rocks off the metal. I've seen this kit on several different cars and I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction.

[2ManyZs]

That body kit is from MSA (Motorsport Auto)

Looks to be their full kit with the front(50-1409), rear(50-1473) and the side skirts(50-1461) or similar items. You can purchase their Aero kit and pick your front air dam, side skirts, and rear skirt, as they have either urethane or fiberglass available.

[CB30]

I think I'll keep an eye on your posts, 2. You seem to be full of all the tidbits I'm going to be looking for.

Thanks

[CB30]

OK... low res dig pics of the car. If you think it's shiney, I would like to inform you that it was raining this morning.