Fairlady 432 at Auction

[240260280]

This topic got me so interested in the 432-R that I just bought one.... the first racer:

[240260280]

Thanks Alan!  I found your excellent post here:

 

[87mj]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 11:10 AM, gundee said:

Road and Track calls it an 'absurd' price. But then admits at the end the price makes sense. Well maybe for some people it does I guess.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a30502658/1970-datsun-z432r-sold-800000-auction/?src=socialflowFBRAT&fbclid=IwAR0YG5jsXUkXpmPoQpTdFH4fMF6R1KF2gTpPdvXeMGCSMoDZf76_0XpnRXA

I may as well stir the pot a little on this.  The thing I find most amusing about this is that out on FB, people believe the escalating price of this 432 actually impacts the value of all 240/260/280 & ZX. 

Can you imagine a guy selling a 260z telling a prospective buyer that one of these recently sold for $800k?  I have seen people comment about the Franklin Mint Z as if somehow their car could be worth that if they restore it properly.  I could argue the rising demand of 240z impacts the value of unique cars such as this one, the Franklin Mint Z or the VIN chasers.  But I just wonder how many people overpay for a car because of the occasional sales like this one and do so for a car that will never be worth anything.  Marketing hype raises sale price for the uninformed  but then reality sets in after you get it home.

[Jason240z]

13 minutes ago, 87mj said:

I may as well stir the pot a little on this.  The thing I find most amusing about this is that out on FB, people believe the escalating price of this 432 actually impacts the value of all 240/260/280 & ZX. 

Can you imagine a guy selling a 260z telling a prospective buyer that one of these recently sold for $800k?  I have seen people comment about the Franklin Mint Z as if somehow their car could be worth that if they restore it properly.  I could argue the rising demand of 240z impacts the value of unique cars such as this one, the Franklin Mint Z or the VIN chasers.  But I just wonder how many people overpay for a car because of the occasional sales like this one and do so for a car that will never be worth anything.  Marketing hype raises sale price for the uninformed  but then reality sets in after you get it home.

Most of the whole world see's zero extra value in the 'Franklin Mint Z'. Also remember that the whole car was effectively an insurance 'total loss'....

 

[Gav240z]

14 minutes ago, 87mj said:

I may as well stir the pot a little on this.  The thing I find most amusing about this is that out on FB, people believe the escalating price of this 432 actually impacts the value of all 240/260/280 & ZX.

Only I disagree with you on this, the most desirable models fetching record prices does trickle down to the lower specification models. I've seen this time and again.

Just a few examples:

1. Air cooled 911s get mental money, the humble 912s climb in value.

2. Skyline GTRs (R32) start selling for double what they did a few years ago, R33's start to climb in anticipation of 25 year rule in US of A impacting the values of all R32/R33/R34 models. Don't get me started on R34 GTR values, the rarest specs are selling for crazy money, but even the lowest non V-Spec cars are getting crazy money.

3. C10 GTRs are now over quarter million mark and the humble non-GTRs (clones) are asking $100k+

4. Spirit R and Type RZ FD RX-7's go for $100k+ and lower spec Type RB, RS, Bathurst R etc.. models all increase.

This is because those who want the "special" versions or higher spec cars are priced out, so they look at the next most desirable options and may a Premium for them in a rising market. It trickles down to the lower specification cars.

Early 240z's fetch a Premium over later 72/73 models. But a rising tide as Warren Buffet says lifts all boats. So later 240z/260z and even 280z's have increased in value in the past 3-4 years (in some cases doubling in value).

I agree that rusty buckets shouldn't increase in value much, given the work needed and potential return on investment being poor. But good quality cars will always increase in value (IMHO) given that cost of certain parts continues to go up, labor costs increase and supply drops over time. At least until a demographic shift causes certain marques to fall out of favour and in some cases (50/60s cars) can be bought for a song compared to their restoration costs.

[Gav240z]

8 minutes ago, Jason240z said:

Most of the whole world see's zero extra value in the 'Franklin Mint Z'. Also remember that the whole car was effectively an insurance 'total loss'....

True, another example is the Samuri Z's in the UK. They have far less appeal outside of Europe/UK.

A car like the Z423-R however has global appeal.

[HS30-H]

3 minutes ago, 87mj said:

I may as well stir the pot a little on this.  The thing I find most amusing about this is that out on FB, people believe the escalating price of this 432 actually impacts the value of all 240/260/280 & ZX.

What I'm seeing is quite a lot of people not quite understanding the difference between the 432 and the 432-R. I think that will probably continue, just as it does in the classic Porsche world where Mr Average just won't have a deep enough interest to spot the difference between a 911S and a 911R at ten paces.  

I take your point about people tending to think that the rising tide raises all ships, but that's been happening across the rest of the S30 range with people wanting to believe that recent sale prices for early/'significant' 240Zs are pulling up prices of later 240Zs, 260Zs and 280Zs. They may even be right to some degree, but there are still a lot of those cars extant and available, which must suppress average values somewhat.

That's not the case with extant 432s and - more so - the 432-Rs, most of which are known to enthusiasts in Japan individually (by chassis number no less), and there are not many hiding undiscovered any more. This will tend to keep prices high.

I think it's fair to say that rising values of 432s and 432-Rs - along with other rare models like the 240ZG - have been of concern to long-term owners in Japan. People who bought their cars 20, 30 and 40 years ago are not necessarily rejoicing, and some may see high value as something of a burden due to unwanted attention (the wrong kind of attention...) and higher insurance implications with strictures on storage and use.         

[Jason240z]

4 hours ago, Gav240z said:

True, another example is the Samuri Z's in the UK. They have far less appeal outside of Europe/UK.

A car like the Z423-R however has global appeal.

They've not much interest/appeal in the UK apart from those with them who want to sell!

 

[Gav240z]

15 hours ago, HS30-H said:

I think it's fair to say that rising values of 432s and 432-Rs - along with other rare models like the 240ZG - have been of concern to long-term owners in Japan. People who bought their cars 20, 30 and 40 years ago are not necessarily rejoicing, and some may see high value as something of a burden due to unwanted attention (the wrong kind of attention...) and higher insurance implications with strictures on storage and use.

Yep. it's a double-edged sword as I've always said. Increase in value is good if you intend to sell, but more of an issue if you intend to enjoy and use it. It's not just rarity of parts, unwanted attention, but insurance premiums rise. It also makes the prospect of restoring incomplete examples much more daunting. I look at the prices for early 240z parts and cringe at times. Just makes me glad my early cars are mostly complete and original. Since sourcing and paying for the individual parts can blow a restoration budget out of whack beyond initial assessment, especially if your restoration takes 5 or more years, it's enough time for some items to double-treble or quadruple in price compared to the time of the vehicles purchase.

Having said all that I'm glad these cars are starting to get the recognition they finally deserve, for too long they were disregarded and too many of them sacrificed for the wrong reasons. And it does help justify the money invested in the restoration process.