at wits end

[7tooZ]

Is it possible the disk that slips on to the distributer shaft is wrong? Cracked? Bad? Etc


Don's iPhone using Classic Zcar Club mobile

[sweatybetty]

first off, i would like to thank you all for the help. the problem is solved!!!!!!!!! it turns out the plugs i put in (NGK BPR6EGP) are designed for a high energy ignition. they have a very fine pointed center wire. basically, the pertronix and flame thrower dont put out enough energy to fire these plugs consistently. i switched to the NGK BPR6ES-11, and i have fire in every hole and the back fire is gone. something so simple............

[240260280]

That does not make sense. finer points spark at lower voltages?  Maybe you have two bad plugs?

[240260280]

You could have fake sh!t from mainland China. They are experts at making fake junk. Nothing is beyond their greed and ignorance of ethics and safety.

Someone on Garage Journal got burned: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270816&showall=1

Have a look at what NGK has had to post because of fake Chinese NGK plugs

http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/english/techinfo/fake/

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by 240260280

[Zed Head]

42 minutes ago, sweatybetty said:

first off, i would like to thank you all for the help. the problem is solved!!!!!!!!! it turns out the plugs i put in (NGK BPR6EGP) are designed for a high energy ignition. they have a very fine pointed center wire. basically, the pertronix and flame thrower dont put out enough energy to fire these plugs consistently. i switched to the NGK BPR6ES-11, and i have fire in every hole and the back fire is gone. something so simple............

Glad you figured it out.  You should have been able to reset the gap to about .030" and got consistent spark. If it was "-10" at the end that means that it's designed for about .040" gap and they come preset that way.  The "R" means resistor and they do go bad sometimes, apparently.  If it was a bad plug you'd see it by measuring resistance from the top to the center electrode.  You could do that for fun if you have a meter handy.

Edit - just noticed that there's nothing in Blue's NGK fake link about China.  But there might some subtle anti-Semitism.  Not saying Blue is, just saying it's in the link.  Also, odd that there are no links back to the NGK home page so that you can verify where it originated.  Rabbit hole, gopher hole, who knows.  These conversations all end up in a bad place, inherently.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Zed Head

[240260280]

17 hours ago, Zed Head said:

Edit - just noticed that there's nothing in Blue's NGK fake link about China.  But there might some subtle anti-Semitism.  Not saying Blue is, just saying it's in the link.  Also, odd that there are no links back to the NGK home page so that you can verify where it originated.  Rabbit hole, gopher hole, who knows.  These conversations all end up in a bad place, inherently.

 

 Its all on the NGK website dude: https://www.google.ca/search?q=fake+site:www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp&num=100&newwindow=1&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcvZ7x56zTAhWFilQKHejnBYQQ_AUICCgB&biw=2049&bih=1008&dpr=0.67

 

On their top page: http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/english/index.html

 

Who buys their plugs on Alibaba? I triple dog dare anyone.

Edited April 18, 2017 by 240260280

[Zed Head]

Check this out.  https://www.ngk.com/Automotive-NGK-l1411.aspx

[gundee]

4 hours ago, sweatybetty said:

first off, i would like to thank you all for the help. the problem is solved!!!!!!!!! it turns out the plugs i put in (NGK BPR6EGP) are designed for a high energy ignition. they have a very fine pointed center wire. basically, the pertronix and flame thrower dont put out enough energy to fire these plugs consistently. i switched to the NGK BPR6ES-11, and i have fire in every hole and the back fire is gone. something so simple............

 

Where did you find that information? I would like to read it. Pertronix is a 40KV system.

[sweatybetty]

i have a buddy that drag races. he has been spot-on all these years so i tend to listen to his advice. he told me that the plugs would work fine with a msd type ignition system.

[240260280]

Strange for 4 plugs to work and two not to work.  Never saw that except for a cracked insulator.

[Chickenman]

2 hours ago, sweatybetty said:

i have a buddy that drag races. he has been spot-on all these years so i tend to listen to his advice. he told me that the plugs would work fine with a msd type ignition system.

But a Pertronix is not an MSD style syste. The MSD is a Capacitor Discharge box. ( At least the ones that Drag Racers would be familiar with ). The Pertronix is an inductive box. And not a particularly strong one at that unfortunately. 

MSD does make an Inductive box. The 5 series, but no serious Drag Racer would use one of those. It does however, put out a stronger spark than Pertronix. Don't believe all the hype about voltages. 40KV may sound great, but a plug may need only 20kv to Arc Over and initiate the spark kernel. One the kernel is established, it is amperage or current that maintains the spark. Current output or Amperage is more important than Voltage. Think of a  Garden hose and a Fire Hose. Get hit with 100 psi ( PSI = Voltage )  from a  5/8" ( Amperage ) Garden hose. Now get hit with 100 PSI ( Voltage ) from a 3" ( amperage ) Fire Hose. It's gonna knock you on your arse. Same thing with Voltage and Amperage in a Coil. Modern Ignition designs are all switching to High Amperage and have since the late 90's. 

Unfortunately the Pertronix is not one of those systems. A quick fix is to Combine the Pertronix with an Auxilary box like a Crane Hi-6S. This is piggy back system ( Needs a module to trigger it ) that will take the output signal from the Pertronix and up it to a long duration, multi-spark Inductive system with a very sophisticated Rev control. Crane units are generally more reliable than MSD. the added bonus is because the electronics in the Crane Box take the amperage draw from the coil, your Pertronix module now see millamps of darw. The Crane box is much heavier duty and has very reliable protection circuits.  

Modern OEM inductive systems can easily fire .045" to .060" plug gaps. Those are recommended new plug gaps. The Pertronix, gets iffy around .040" , as you've found out. Crane inductive boxes, MSD inductive boxes and Nissan OEM 12-80 Match box modules can easily handle .040" to .045" on NA motors. MSD CDI boxes and Crane CDI boxes... heck, you can snip the side electrode of at the base and thye won't acre. They will happily fire away with no side electrode at all. ( Or jump to another internal dizzy cap terminal if you have a bad plug or plug wire.  See comment below )  

I did not mention the Crane Hi-6 CDI box , because frankly it is over kill in a standard Nissan dizzy. You need a larger diameter cap than what Nizzan supplies for the huge spark it puts out. An 82-84 Turbo dizzy cap is just getting large enough to handle a CDI box like MSD 6-AL  or Crane Hi-6

[Chickenman]

3 hours ago, 240260280 said:

Strange for 4 plugs to work and two not to work.  Never saw that except for a cracked insulator.

Were the plug leads ever checked with an Ohm Meter? Could be a couple of plug leads have a higher resistance than they should?

Regarding higher voltages required by Gold Palladium plugs. I recall reading something about that years ago. Palladium is not that great of an electrical conductor. So, even though fine wire, they do require more spark energy to fire. Was on some forced induction forums.  GP plugs were an answer back in the 1990's to extend spark plug life over Copper core/Nickel tip plugs. 

Iridium has come down in price since the early 2000's and offers increased melting temperatures and reduced spark firing voltage over Gold/Palladium plugs. The other proble with GP plugs is that the GP was actaully a " Chip " that was fused on to the center electrode and side electrode. These were very brittle and had a tendency to break off if the engine pinged or detonated slightly. On a Turbo car these very sharp and hard " chips " would then damage the exhaust turbine as they blew out of the combustion chamber. 

Iridium plugs are constructed differently and they do not have the same problem with " Chips " breaking off.