The S30 design isn't helped by....

[RIP260Z]

...this...more myth. Go to timeline in the link.

https://www.s30.org/index.php

 

 

 

[240260280]

I believe Goertz's contract started in May 1963 and ended in November 1964.  1.5 Years.   His last duty was the Nov 1963 Tokyo Motor show and the CSP-311 release.

I have seen his name raised in the very early British 240z articles in Q1, 1970.  I think that is the source of the Myth.

 

 

[RIP260Z]

Agreed. I have enough problem dealing with the Geortz design myth with the CSP311, as I own one, and have a website covering the CSP311 history. (its listed under my profile somewhere).

The more you start looking at what is printed about his real input whilst in Japan, adds up to some clay modelling and a C pillar change. Nothing else can be corroborated, unless you keep regurgitating the myth, which most sources do.

The S30 org site could have been a small bastion of accuracy, instead.....

[HS30-H]

On 10/06/2017 at 8:56 PM, 240260280 said:

I believe Goertz's contract started in May 1963 and ended in November 1964.  1.5 Years.  

'According to Goertz' is not quite the same as 'according to Nissan', or according to reality... 

Goertz certainly had a little of Walter Mitty about him, and was making grand claims about his work in Japan when very few people were able to call him out on it because they mostly didn't get to hear about it. The terms of his contract with Nissan would make interesting reading (and a 19 month contract term is one I've yet to see...) but I think we can be sure he wasn't employed in a position as a "Design Consultant" in the sense that he was supposed to be actually designing anything.

Reality: Goertz did not speak, read or write Japanese. All of his communication in Japan would have had to have been conducted through interpreters, or in English. That would have cramped his style somewhat. Nissan (and Prince) were big enough to hire the services of specialist coachbuilders like Pininfarina and Michelotti, and at least got the kudos of collaborations with such world-renowned coachbuilding houses and could use their names and badges. Goertz was an itinerant lone gun for hire who put himself in the frame rather than being sought out by Nissan, and they hired him for the very specific purpose of full size clay modelling techniques.

I feel your pain RIP260Z. I just don't understand why Goertz gets namechecked so often with regard to 'our' cars. It makes a no-smoke-without-fire situation where even mentioning him as having nothing to do with the S30-series Z's creation makes a subliminal connection. I don't know what the solution is, except to be constant and repetitive in stating that he didn't "design" anything that went into production.              

[HS30-H]

On 10/06/2017 at 8:56 PM, 240260280 said:

I have seen his name raised in the very early British 240z articles in Q1, 1970.  I think that is the source of the Myth.

I don't believe the British press got anything exclusive with regard to Goertz. I think the "source of the Myth" was clearly Goertz himself, but he had friends and supporters in the North American automotive press and used them to big-up his 'portfolio'.

Wasn't one of the biggest claims in the Canadian press?

 

Anecdote: I was once threatened with legal action by some friends and associates of "Graf" Albrecht Goertz. They took exception to my correspondence with the British automotive press regarding their friend's work. They believe he "designed the Datsun 240Z", and were prepared to go to court to defend their view. I have no idea what evidence they could produce to support such a claim...