So I took my mostly stock 1976 280z out Monday for the first time in 6 years after replacing the blown engine (replaced with a 79 2.8 L).  

Ran pretty good, but at speeds above about 30 mph, I would get an intermittent "Death Wobble" in the steering wheel.

The steering wheel would vibrate/shimmy back and forth, I actually pulled over to see if I had blown a tire.  

Jacked it up, steering wheel locked: no play up and down (pushed at 12 and 6).  Decent play side to side (pushed at 9 and 3).  

Looks like the play is in the outer tie rod ends (might be stock...) so I ordered 2 Moogs.  I have replaced tie rods on other cars before, I know they can be a pain.  I want to get the alignment at least close enough to enjoy a weekend cruise, so I'm looking at keeping the toe the same as it is now (I have normal tire wear).  

Any advice on this job?  I understand you want the leading edge to be about 1/8" less than the trailing edge of the tires for slight toe in.  What exactly do I turn to adjust this once the new ones are installed?  I assume something on the inner tie rods?  (Yes I've read that if I did need to eventually replace the inners, I have to use two RH ones etc...)  

The driver's side is the "reverse threaded" side, correct?  

I plan on just cracking the holding nut loose and using that as the starting point.  But I also know new tie rods may not be the exact same length.  

As a side note, what's everyone running for base timing?  It says 7 degrees on the hood.  This engine seems a little less powerful, the stock engine would "chirp" the tires when shifting from 1st to second (automatic, I know, I plan on a manual swap someday, but the one I pulled from a ZX is the "wide ratio", so it might be a dog).

Thanks, i'm really hoping to enjoy this car this summer!  

TC RODS! Check the factory settings recommending. If the virtual axle (wheel hubs) are not aligned it will cause a DEATH VIBRATION under acceleration and braking you can get a WOBBLE. TIE RODS. COUNT the turns out and put on the same number of turns in and you will be back where you started. But get an alignment  to make sure it's spot on. Good luck.

7 hours ago, ramsesosirus said:

 This engine seems a little less powerful, the stock engine would "chirp" the tires when shifting from 1st to second (automatic,

Chirping tires during a shift is really just a function of the amount of rotating mass, the "firmness" of the drivetrain parts involved and the traction limits of the tires.  Power isn't really involved. Just saying.  A big flywheel and a "heavy duty" clutch will chirp skinny tires all day long.  Just an example, you said that you have an automatic.  The same basics are involved.

Don't forget the top of the suspension assembly, the struts.  

Thanks for all the replies.  I did work on it for about an hour after work.  Man, it is a pain.  Just getting the cotter pins out sucks.  Couldn't get the ends to come out of the knuckle with a pickle fork.  Probably going to rent a tool from the parts store.  Also, even if something else is worn, like the TC rods, these tie rod ends are shot completely.  Will definitely be an improvement, if I ever get them off... sometimes I wonder why I even work on cars, it really isn't fun most of the time!

Should I rent a tie rod removal tool or buy a small sledge and beat on the side of the "knuckle"?

No real difference between accelerating or braking.  Actually doing either seems to help, as well as hitting a bump in the road helps.  

 

Edited June 15, 20177 yr by ramsesosirus
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8 hours ago, Zed Head said:

Chirping tires during a shift is really just a function of the amount of rotating mass, the "firmness" of the drivetrain parts involved and the traction limits of the tires.  Power isn't really involved. Just saying.  A big flywheel and a "heavy duty" clutch will chirp skinny tires all day long.  Just an example, you said that you have an automatic.  The same basics are involved.

Don't forget the top of the suspension assembly, the struts.  

That's a good point.  I just thought it sounded and felt cool.  After driving my company's 2010 Impala, it makes me realize that these cars aren't that fast overall.  But we all know speed isn't the entire point.  

13 hours ago, ramsesosirus said:

Thanks for all the replies.  I did work on it for about an hour after work.  Man, it is a pain.  Just getting the cotter pins out sucks.  Couldn't get the ends to come out of the knuckle with a pickle fork.  Probably going to rent a tool from the parts store.  Also, even if something else is worn, like the TC rods, these tie rod ends are shot completely.  Will definitely be an improvement, if I ever get them off... sometimes I wonder why I even work on cars, it really isn't fun most of the time!

Should I rent a tie rod removal tool or buy a small sledge and beat on the side of the "knuckle"?

No real difference between accelerating or braking.  Actually doing either seems to help, as well as hitting a bump in the road helps.  

 

DO NOT BEAT ON ANYTHING. Rent or buy a tool to get the job done. You don't want to create a problem, you are trying to fix a problem. With the correct tool the job can be accomplished. NOTE when reinstalling fasteners and parts apply anti seize liberally. Makes the Jobe easier in the future and you won't break any fasteners. BTW I always found that a cold adult beverage nearby as I work seems to make the job go smoother. Good Luck!

+1 on the cold beverage!

I found while doing my two Zs front end you can jack the front end up and get the tires off the ground. Then use a small bottle jack or some pieces of wood if you dont have small jack and raise the tires up enough to get the pressure off the tie rod. Use a fork you can borrow for no charge at a chain parts store. Get the nut off and it'll pop right off without much effort once you take away the pressure. The threaded stud should be as straight up and down as you can get it. If it's at an angle it is a PITA.

Bought the Ball Joint removal tool and a torque wrench from harbor freight today, had 20% coupon.  The ball joint removal tool works great, just remember to leave the nut on because it pops off like a gunshot when it goes.   It also wont' ruin the boot like the pickle fork does, it case I need to remove them again without damaging them.  Tomorrow I plan to adjust the alignment a little, seems somewhat toed out.  Still have a little clicking on the passenger side when jacked up and pressing at 9 and 3, we'll see if the death wobble is improved tomorrow after work.  If not, I'm thinking:

Brake rotors

Inner tie rods

TC rod bushings

Rag Joint

Rack Mounting Bushings

 

Funny thing is it didn't really have this problem 6 years ago when I blew the engine (rear main oil seal leaked all the oil on the interstate).  It is a problem that seemed to develop/worsen after sitting....

 

Thanks for all the advice and help guys!

 

I also love "cheater bars".  No way I could've gotten those jam nuts off without them.

How do I adjust the toe without removing the outer tie rod end from the knuckle/spindle thing?  

 

Edited June 16, 20177 yr by ramsesosirus

50 minutes ago, ramsesosirus said:

Tomorrow I plan to adjust the alignment a little, seems somewhat toed out.

Funny thing is it didn't really have this problem 6 years ago when I blew the engine (rear main oil seal leaked all the oil on the interstate).  It is a problem that seemed to develop/worsen after sitting....

If you didn't have the problem before then 98% of what you're doing and planning has no real basis.  No offense.  I would focus on the tires.  I had a tiny wobble on my other car that slowly grew in to a bigger wobble that I knew was tires but I waited too long to fix. Had a blowout on the highway at 70 that probably started out as a busted belt in the tire.  The blowout ended up as a softball sized hole in the tread with frayed steel wire from the belts poking out.  In the few seconds it went from wobble to blowout I thought a gang of bikers was passing me,  I actually looked in my mirror for the choppers.  Just an aside...

Try swapping your back tires for the fronts.  If it's bad front tires you'll notice a difference.

Hi there,i had the same problem on my 78z i replaced the springs and struts with the staggs vouglant kit and problem is gone

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8 hours ago, Zed Head said:

Try swapping your back tires for the fronts.  If it's bad front tires you'll notice a difference.

My reasoning for not doing tires first is that the vibration would come and go, there were a few times I was going 45mph+ and it felt smooth, no vibration or shimmy at all;  I could control the wheel with one hand easily.  Then I would maybe hit a bump or a curve in the road, and the vibration was bad all of the sudden.  

If it were the tire(s), wouldn't it be a constant issue?  With every rotation?  

I am planning to drive it around the street a little and see if anything changed or improved, then swap the front/rear tires if there is still an issue.  

Regardless, i am glad I changed the tire rods, they were in pretty poor shape.  I'm thinking it might be a combination of issues that I am having.

I guess one advantage of replacing things yourself is that you can do several things for the cost of one item at a repair shop, even if you do "throw parts" at it sometimes.

It sounds like the problem i had it could be days and it won't crazy vibrate then when car is parked for a day or two problems comes back specifically on the first drive after is being sitting.

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12 hours ago, ramsesosirus said:

Bought the Ball Joint removal tool and a torque wrench from harbor freight today, had 20% coupon.  The ball joint removal tool works great, just remember to leave the nut on because it pops off like a gunshot when it goes.   It also wont' ruin the boot like the pickle fork does, it case I need to remove them again without damaging them.  Tomorrow I plan to adjust the alignment a little, seems somewhat toed out.  Still have a little clicking on the passenger side when jacked up and pressing at 9 and 3, we'll see if the death wobble is improved tomorrow after work.  If not, I'm thinking:

Brake rotors

Inner tie rods

TC rod bushings

Rag Joint

Rack Mounting Bushings

 

Funny thing is it didn't really have this problem 6 years ago when I blew the engine (rear main oil seal leaked all the oil on the interstate).  It is a problem that seemed to develop/worsen after sitting....

 

Thanks for all the advice and help guys!

 

I also love "cheater bars".  No way I could've gotten those jam nuts off without them.

How do I adjust the toe without removing the outer tie rod end from the knuckle/spindle thing?  

 

The inner tie rod spins once you undo the jamb nut for this adjustment. I suggest a professional alignment to know for sure it ends up correct.