P79 Head Stuck to Block, Please Help!

[siteunseen]

Sort of close to rabbit ears.  The pointed-er end opens them, the round end closes them.

These are both closed;

[NMcKe97]

Great idea siteunseen, I was thinking I'd remove the alternator and everything out of the way to jack that point up with a 2x4  beforehand but a broom handle or small piece of wood would probably work better if not just as well. Plus I'll save some time, I'll give her a shot!

When you say technicians dutchzcarguy who would I go to for a problem like this? What sort of a buisness? I opted for the do it yourself route because I'd like to learn how to work on my own car, I'd know the quality of all the work, and because my wallet is reeeally tight.

Thank you guys for confirming my question about the cam lobes. As I said in my first post I'm new to all this and still learning, thanks for putting up with my lack of knowledge. I kinda thought that was how it worked but wanted to make certain of myself.

Thanks again guys. - Noah M

[Zed Head]

I thought of something last night that might help.  Feeler gauges.  Stick two thin ones in to any gap you can create, then stick another between them as far as it will go.  Press on the blade while you hit with the hammer.  The gauge blade should slide in a little farther with each hit.

If you can't even get one blade in, then pound wit the hammer while you try to stick the blade in.  You might have to work a gap open a few thousandths of an inch at a time.  Maybe you're trying to do too much at one shot.

[NMcKe97]

That's a brilliant idea Zed Head!

Feeler gauges will be a whole hell of a lot thinner than my putty knife so I'm sure to slide one size or another in. As you said, I just need to try and make smaller bounds and work anything I can in there, one size at a time. One of these ideas will inevitably lead to it coming off, it's just a matter of when lol.

Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it. - Noah M

[Captain Obvious]

Are you positively completely absolutely 100% without a doubt willing to stake your reputation on it convinced that you have all the retaining hardware removed?

Just asking... I have to.

[NMcKe97]

Haha yea I'm pretty certain Captain Obvious,  there's nothing else on the block to hold it down. If you look at the pictures I uploaded you can see everything should be removed. If not the 14 head bolts and 2 front cover bolts what other hardware could be the culprit? Thanks again - Noah M

[gwri8]

In my case, when using the 2x4 and jack method, the weight of the engine as a counter force was not enough. In fact, I'm not sure that it is counterforce as long as the two components are still joined or in this case stuck together (I am not a physicist, nor do I play one on tv).  I thought I was going to rip the engine mount.  However, It is a good method and when you try it and if it doesn't separate, try adding a little extra counter force while it is still under pressure. That's where a small block of wood and crowbar come in placed between the two arrows.  Slow steady pressure.  Whatever head gasket my PO used before had some kind of adhesion to it.  I'll bet yours is the same.

[Zed Head]

That broken rusty bolt piece can exert a lot of resistance.  Rust is weird stuff, it actually grows as it eats away the base metal.  Oxygen atoms are added to the metal that is pulled off.  It will expand to fill every void, and when the growth occurs in expanded cylinder head holes, the result is a compressed pile of rust when the head cools down.  Rusting rebar cracks concrete even when its buried deep.  Called "spalling".  It's powerful.  It's a major cause of bridge damage.

Here's a fuzzy picture I took of mine right after I finally rocked the head off of the bolt remains.  That pile of rust was packed into the hole.

Here's another, more clear.

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Zed Head

[Mark Maras]

 That's quite a pile of rust. Common knowledge in the shipyard repair division was that the rust expansion ratio was 1 to 7. An inch of steel will produce seven inches of rust before it's consumed.

[Captain Obvious]

6 hours ago, NMcKe97 said:

there's nothing else on the block to hold it down.

Cool. Just wanted to quadruple check. Good luck with your efforts, and I hope they pay off soon.

Have you considered M-80's?  

[JSM]

Do you have source for another head? Just in case my idea is off the wall and you may ruin it.

I would do this only as a last resort.

My thought is since the cam is made of steal, center a long piece of steel rod (crow bar, train bar) at least 3' long, under the cam. Use a piece of rubber hose to protect the cam and a piece of wood under each side each of the bar where it sticks out to protect the aluminum and remove any slack. You want it wedged so the bar can't move. Get a buddy on one side and you on the other and slowly rock it back and forth.

Again, last resort.


Sent from my iPhone using Classic Zcar Club mobile

Edited July 28, 2017 by JSM

[madkaw]

I still say a heavy deadblow or actual sledge hammer and standing on the strut towers swinging it like a lumber jack will be needed to SHOCK it loose. You need weight and shock to bust it loose . You need to hit it from every available angle to find that weak spot. I've had to beat these heads before WITHOUT any stud broken . Just take all appropriate cautions .

soon there will be victory !!!